An affordable housing roundtable discussion with the Oregon Manufactured Housing Association

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[00:00:33] Eric Goranson: Now we're following up with a great interview from all these different manufacturers. They're competitors, but they're sitting down with us. to discuss affordable housing and how manufactured housing can be a great way to do it. Why not listen about a factory home that's built inside versus outside. Now let's get to the show.

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[00:00:59] Eric Goranson: know. [00:01:00] But we've got you covered. This is Around the House. Welcome to the Around the House show. This is where we help you. Get the most out of your home through information and education. Thanks for joining us. We have a very fun episode today. I got a bunch of friends in the room here. We are going to be talking manufactured housing and how this is a really great solution for a house that you want to put on the land, but more importantly, we've been really talking today about trying to get in and let it become the real answer for affordable housing out there.

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[00:01:42] Kevin McShane: Thanks Eric. My name is Kevin McShane. I'm the plant general manager for Fleetwood homes.

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[00:01:53] Eric Goranson: That is great.

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[00:02:07] Ben Roche: So we're just excited to share affordable housing with Oregonians.

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[00:02:13] Tim Schweitzer: Thank you. Uh, Tim Schweitzer, uh, Clayton Holmes down in Albany, Oregon, uh, sales manager down there. So, uh, still, he's been there originated as Golden West, uh, late 60s. So it's been there quite a long time. Uh, myself in an industry for about 20 years.

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[00:02:31] Brent Heckman: I'm Brent Heckman, sales and marketing manager for Skyline Homes in McMinnville, Oregon. Uh, we've been out in McMinnville since 1969 building the American dream. Yeah.

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[00:02:49] Eric Goranson: Appreciate you too, Eric. Thanks. All right, guys. So let's talk about some of the challenges and Tim, we're going to make sure that you're a part of this year too. But... Let's talk about some of the challenges we're having out there, because [00:03:00] to me, I think there's this misconception with homeowners out there and especially government officials.

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[00:03:26] Brent Heckman: Yeah, you're absolutely correct. Uh, we, we've got a negative stigma from, uh, years gone by. Um, I don't think people really recognize what we do today and, and, uh, the quality and level of construction and how many people we employ and, and how they're all put together.

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[00:03:45] Eric Goranson: They were not really well, that well put together. And now you've got RVs out there that are the king of the roads out there that you can be living like you're in a luxury mansion out there. And all of these industries have elevated in those homes over the years. [00:04:00] What do you guys see out? There's other challenges that we have that we kind of need to get over as far as communities and things like that.

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[00:04:27] Eric Goranson: And you guys have actually, I think, in my opinion, suppressed them. Well,

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[00:04:45] Ben Roche: Our building code was started in the late 70s, and now we're building to the manufactured housing construction and safety standards. And those standards are newer manufactured, safer manufactured homes that are built in a factory today. But the other thing you touched on is the durability and the energy [00:05:00] efficiency of new manufactured homes and how they're built today.

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[00:05:17] Ben Roche: So there's a better quality component of doing it indoors. And that's something else we want to bring to market so people recognize the durability and the quality that comes out of our factories.

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[00:05:36] Eric Goranson: I was up there in that market and I go into measure on a day like today, it was a downpour and they're framing this house up. I'm going to measure the cabinets cause I was a cabinet designer for these guys. So I walk into this builder's home and there is so much rain coming down in this framed house that the second floor balcony has a sheet of water coming off it.

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[00:06:19] Eric Goranson: And I walked in. I'm like, I'm not going to die today. You guys have a good day. I'll come back later. Funny story, but let's talk about that is a healthy home, right? How are they going to dry that out? They're not right.

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[00:06:45] Eric Goranson: Yeah.

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[00:07:12] Eric Goranson: Guess what? They're in the dumpster and that's costing that homeowner twice. Cause once they got to pay for the materials and two, they're paying a good money to haul it off. And I think that's one of the green building things that I see about your industry. And let's talk about that. I think that's an important one that on worker safety.

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[00:07:38] Kevin McShane: seeing? Well, you touched on worker safety. We've spent more money on safety and safety improvements in the last five years, probably than we have in the previous 30 I was in the industry. Uh, honestly, the, the, the industry, I believe had a, uh, a pretty high accident rate prior to that.

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[00:08:32] Kevin McShane: And also, it's a business that, uh, people grow in people grow quite a bit. And I can't tell you how well I started. I'm a plant general manager. I started, uh, uh, in a roofing department. Longer, longer ago than I like to admit. Um, but, uh, so there's that part of the industry that I've always really enjoyed is that we, we bring, we give people an opportunity to do something maybe they hadn't done or to maybe grow beyond what they knew they were capable of [00:09:00] growing.

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[00:09:06] Eric Goranson: I mean, that's, that's important. And, and quite frankly, I don't know of anybody in construction out there that wouldn't probably this time of year. In the fall here in the Pacific Northwest go, boy, I sure wish I was working indoors today.

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[00:09:19] Kevin McShane: heated environment besides being enclosed from the rain. It's yeah. Heated environment for the workers this time of the year. Uh, well lit, um, you know, all of those things that you just don't get working out on a job

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[00:09:39] Brent Heckman: Exactly. Yeah. You got a stable place.

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[00:09:59] Eric Goranson: What are [00:10:00] you seeing out there, man? What are you seeing out in the industry that, uh, that, uh, should change a little bit or perceptions that we, we could change out there. Sure, I

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[00:10:20] Tim Schweitzer: And actually, a look on folks faces when they walked in our homes today, as far as what we can provide, what we do, um, from the, from the tall ceilings to the hardwood cabinets to the front porches to, uh, Siding so on and so forth. So, but still going back to the misconceptions of way back when and stuff, but, uh, you know, touching on touching on some of these things to, from our perspective, safety with our, with our team members, uh, um, the, the environment, everything is, is, is, is in top consideration for us at our facility.

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[00:11:13] Eric Goranson: no, I mean, that's in construction's a dangerous field. I mean, let's, let's be honest that there is, there is anything that can happen.

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[00:11:37] Eric Goranson: Maybe it's a little bit of ice on the roof or something like that. We're inside and, and I see here, and especially in the Pacific Northwest, you guys in the, in the Southwest or listen to us or down South that you don't really run into this as much as we do up here. But I don't want to buy a house to be honest up in this area here.

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[00:12:12] Eric Goranson: It's black, you know, guess what? That's not healthy. Yeah. And nobody does anything. There's nothing in building code. There's nothing that says that anybody should be doing anything different there. And I think that's 1 of the things with. Yeah. With framing in our area here and on the West Coast, that that's very important that now people are dealing with health hazards down the road where that's just impossible to happen in your guys's environment, you know, and it leads for a healthier home and, you know, today was really cool to be watching, you know, all of you guys as, as direct competitors, you guys are out there fighting for the same business, but I thought it was really cool to watch your industry today.

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[00:13:16] Eric Goranson: That's what we're talking about. And I think there's got to be a lot more of that to get people to really pay attention. But that was a good start today, guys.

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[00:13:32] Brent Heckman: And it was a, a, a great come together. Thanks to OMHA. Oregon Manufactured Housing Association and our lobbies putting this together. So I think it was a fantastic win for the industry today and we'll look forward to tomorrow as well.

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[00:13:53] Eric Goranson: The lack of skilled people in the trades out there. There's so many great programs out there and there's [00:14:00] so many schools out there that are completely void of any programs out there. You guys do a great job because you have a way to bring people in and okay, they've got some general handy skills and you can train, train them.

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[00:14:28] Ben Roche: a challenge, but we've been, you know, taking on that challenge and overcoming that we've done some educational videos that speak to that.

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[00:14:49] Ben Roche: Nice. And, um, it was much, not much different than the assembly line on a shorter cook. There's a process, you have a recipe and you build a home. And I came out of that environment of production, learning how to show up [00:15:00] on time, how to follow direction and be coachable, um, how to work in a team and, uh, how to build homes.

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[00:15:21] Ben Roche: Yeah, I was proud of my job. And so growing in the industry and learning from the industry, it moved me on from being in a position of manufacturing and leadership to being in sales and marketing and then pitching and selling our homes and telling her why I believe in what I believe in and buying affordable home ownership being primary need for Americans today.

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[00:15:42] Tim Schweitzer: you.

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[00:16:03] Brent Heckman: And we've, we've started to try to figure out a way that we could put some education to it. Cause there's so many people that don't know. Yeah. You know, you can go to truck driving school, but it's a little different when you're pulling something as big as house down the road. So yeah, yeah, it's, it's, we're trying to get the word out.

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[00:16:21] Tim Schweitzer: touch on that was far as, uh, what Brent's saying is transport, uh, one of the, one of our largest, uh, transporters here, uh, who's, uh, they talked about those that aren't on the bench as far as this goes. So. You know, the educational videos of the things to get it out.

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[00:17:01] Tim Schweitzer: Yeah, that's

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[00:17:20] Eric Goranson: And there's a lot of school districts out there that. Every single 1 of those trade programs got turned into computer rooms and. Well, that used to be where the wood shop was, and that's used to be where the auto shop was and so. They've really gotten away from that. So anything you guys are doing, I think helps the whole industry as a, as a whole.

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[00:18:04] Tim Schweitzer: as part of that construction to is the engineering aspects of it in the CAD, the drafting.

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[00:18:26] Tim Schweitzer: Yeah, that's

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[00:18:43] Eric Goranson: And I think that's something over the last 5 to 10 years has really changed that that textbook look that that that people would see that that's not the case anymore. That's kind of beyond that that you guys can do developments. That looks like any other home builder has put it [00:19:00] together. But it's been built, you know, cleaner, more efficiently and cheaper as well.

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[00:19:24] Eric Goranson: We're going to come in and, and contact with you guys. I think we're kind of right on that edge of that being the next wave of housing.

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[00:19:39] Brent Heckman: Manufacturer factory built housing from retail sides, um, placed it on property, uh, built a garage and turned around and sold it, made a profit buying it from retail to do that. So some of those are recognizing that, Hey, maybe this is a better solution or offers a more affordable, um, you know, one of the developers specifically has gotten into the retail [00:20:00] side of our industry.

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[00:20:18] Tim Schweitzer: degenerate.

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[00:20:26] Eric Goranson: And I think. We're just at that beginning phase of the U. S. Figuring out what Europe has figured out a long time ago that maybe stick building on job site is not the way to go, that this is the better way to go. And I think we're at the beginning of that. And, uh, just like a stubborn Americans, we got to figure out how to get over the old times.

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[00:20:56] Kevin McShane: Well, at Fleetwood Homes of Oregon, our kind of market niche [00:21:00] is probably twofold. We're kind of the meat of the market in a, um, uh, in a, an attainable price point, um, energy efficient, um, One thing in general for the industry, I would put it, we didn't touch on is that, um, this is for everybody.

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[00:21:36] Kevin McShane: Between the 4 builders in this room, I'll just take a guess. We have 200 floor plans. Every 1 of us will do some degree of customization. That's and even even those of us that do the least customization is going to be far beyond what, um, what that site builder is going to do. 100%. That's, um, that's sort of an industry wide thing, but if Fleetwood, Oregon, yeah, we were kind of the, the, um, [00:22:00] the, the middle of the market.

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[00:22:22] Kevin McShane: And that's been a very successful niche for us. So nice. It's kind of who we are.

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[00:22:28] Ben Roche: I'm in with, I'm with Palm Harbor homes and Palm Harbor homes is a slogan is more home for your money. So we like to say that we build both affordable, but high value. Factory built homes. Um, one of the things that Palm Harbor is known for is our factory tours.

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[00:23:01] Ben Roche: Um. One of the things that I'm a big advocate for, and I'd like to work with Palm Harbor because we we try to fit a lot of different use cases for our homes is we have a very diverse and mixed area where our homes go. They might go into small communities for affordable living. They might go in 55 and older retirement type living communities, or they might go on simple fee subdivisions and build a developer type product as Brent had mentioned with the with the homes they build.

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[00:23:41] Ben Roche: You know, it's going to be concrete. So you're going to pour that on place, but absolutely. Our homes are very commonly. built and have an attached garage. Um, and we do things that maybe other builders don't want to dabble in the kind of harder stuff to do. Um, ceramic tile floors or something that's available in our homes.

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[00:24:14] Ben Roche: And once that home set up, you'd have no idea it ever came out of the factory.

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[00:24:22] Tim Schweitzer: Yeah. So I can probably regurgitate a lot of what, uh, Kevin and Ben just said, I mean, uh, amongst, you know, we talk about the industry and stuff and really what's, what's, what's good for the industry and all of these guys in here is, is good for our facility as well.

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[00:24:55] Tim Schweitzer: So. Uh, 14 to 1800 square foot homes, uh, is, is, [00:25:00] is mostly what we do. Um, but, uh, but you're looking at, and when I say run the gamut and amongst the amongst all the factories that are here that are represented here, we're, we're running from park models that are under, under 400 square feet to triple wides, four section homes that are, that are beyond 3000 square feet.

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[00:25:33] Tim Schweitzer: But, uh, Clayton homes is, is, uh, is our parent company out of Tennessee. Uh, we actually build. Three brands out of our facility, uh, golden West, which was the, uh, started up that facility, uh, still a brand. And then we have a Carsten brand and then we have our Clayton brand. So, um, sometimes it gets a little bit, a little bit convoluted, you know, and stuff, uh, as, as we have, uh, uh, some of our retail partners are in the same, same market areas and stuff, but, uh, [00:26:00] really the same people building the houses, uh, should get the same, same quality.

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[00:26:19] Brent Heckman: Well said by all of you. I, I, you know, I can just piggyback on all that. I think all of us buy most all of our components from the same supply. It's just a matter of what we've all put together to deem a standard and what to be optional. I think we all do a really good job and hit a certain niche. All niches quit quite honestly.

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[00:27:00] Brent Heckman: There's a lot of options you can really make a beautiful home out of.

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[00:27:23] Eric Goranson: What do you think we could do to change their minds? Is there anything that we've we've missed here to get them to to understand? Because it seems like and I and I don't under I haven't been to every meeting. I've been following it. What's going on? But it seems that for some reason. This industry got kind of skipped over for other things and I don't understand why they did that.

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[00:28:09] Brent Heckman: I, I think this was a huge eyeopening experience. I think, um, I can speak genuinely that everyone that came into, uh, at least our unit that was set up out here was pleasantly surprised, um, and excited to see it. And I know it's going to generate buzz and I know that, uh, there's going to be more people tomorrow.

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[00:28:33] Eric Goranson: opportunities. Well, I just look at it too. And just to piggyback on what you said there, it seems that all of a sudden there was a lot of people that walked in and saw the value sitting there in front of them and went, Oh, what's your guys take?

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[00:29:13] Kevin McShane: You have definite the governor has it has a housing starts per year target here. We can be a part of that solution. We're already a part of that solution. We want to be a larger part of the solution. We not we may not be the solution, but we are a part of that solution. And if if they don't pay attention and ignore us, that's probably bad on them.

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[00:30:04] Kevin McShane: We need to be a part of that. That would be my message. Nice.

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[00:30:10] Ben Roche: there's a big goal. Uh, Tina Kotek declared a housing emergency in January, 36, 000 new housing units, um, is a big goal. We can be a part of that. Um, I think what we need to recognize is where are you going to put them?

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[00:30:40] Ben Roche: And where I think we fit in. is ownership. When someone owns a home, they have equity, they have wealth and they're able to one day pay off that home and live comfortably on their social security check or the retirement income that they've generated and do so comfortably without risk of losing their home, losing their housing.

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[00:31:24] Ben Roche: Yes, I can actually open the door and move a family in. We need to expedite the building process. And I think the factory building process, most of our plants can bring, um, homeowners into a new home and half the time and at half the cost of traditional construction. But we need the land to be able to do it.

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[00:31:56] Ben Roche: To developing subdivisions that our homes can be financed for full ownership, [00:32:00] um, to even, um, backyard homes and accessory dwelling units where someone who existingly owns a piece of property who wants to add a second living unit to either be a rental income piece or to take care of a loved one or somebody who's in special needs.

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[00:32:21] Eric Goranson: smart. Tim, you got something over there?

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[00:32:47] Tim Schweitzer: As what the state wants to achieve. So, uh, I did get a chance to talk to today, a individual that had been a part of, uh, affordable housing committee, uh, belief said for 20 years and, uh, is an [00:33:00] advocate for our industry and, and, uh. Had gone to annual meetings after meetings and, and it opened my eyes. The fact that, and I think Brent alluded to this is what, what have I done to, to really push that, you know, to be able to be a part of that, be put myself or our group into our industry, into that, into those discussions.

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[00:33:23] Eric Goranson: absolutely. Now, and this has been such a great event that you guys have put together here. Um, bringing everybody together, setting some homes up right across the street from the capital for people to walk over and say, hey, look at us over here.

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[00:33:55] Eric Goranson: Wow, that answer was there, but hey, if I want something a little bit bigger, well, that answer [00:34:00] is there and to turn around in a couple of days, have that set up in a parking lot across from the capital is pretty important because it also shows that speed of. Hey, this wasn't here on Friday night, but here we are in the middle of the week and this thing's rocking and rolling and we got lights on and people wonder how the heck you guys got that stuff in there so quick.

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[00:34:23] Eric Goranson: but, you know, I think that's a key part of that.

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[00:34:39] Tim Schweitzer: And if you talk about Northeast, Eastern Oregon, uh, Marlatt homes out there. So, okay.

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[00:35:04] Eric Goranson: That a lot of people see construction and they don't, but I mean, you guys are about as efficient as it gets with building homes. I don't think that there could be much more done. And I think having a green option also keeps the price in point and we talked about a little bit earlier, but I know each 1 of you guys have a facility here that is spending that time to make sure that.

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[00:35:47] Eric Goranson: That's waste. I mean, it seems very efficient with what you guys are

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[00:36:08] Kevin McShane: You take, um, like you said, the site builder may not have as much attention on it because he's generally hiring a whole group of subs. And so he doesn't really control the waste. He controls the bid. And if the sub needs to, um, the sub may or may not be as efficient and we may figure that the, the, the general isn't as, um, that he can be, he can bid some waste in the bed.

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[00:36:56] Kevin McShane: Um, yeah. We, we do all that too, of course, but [00:37:00] again, they, the lack of waste is just cooked into the product. That's just who we are and how we were born. So that's what I would say.

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[00:37:09] Ben Roche: Well, green building like Kevin mentions is in the DNA of factory built housing, but it's also part of the whole holistic approach of building that we buy from suppliers that take that same thought in mind.

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[00:37:39] Ben Roche: So it's both improving indoor air quality and reducing waste using sustainable forestry practices. One of the things that I like to talk about, and I'm not an expert in this by any means, but forestry forestry science tells us that when you harvest trees and you sequester that carbon into those trees.

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[00:38:06] Eric Goranson: And that's 1 thing that our forestry folks do a great job is once they get in there and those trees go right back in the ground again, so they can do it again.

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[00:38:16] Tim Schweitzer: yeah, I mean, it's, it's the same thing again, but it's, uh, um, you know, we, we have, uh, in our company, it's, uh, it's, um, one of our key metrics, uh, that our facility is graded on is, is waste and, and it's tracked track monthly, quarterly. Um, we have one. Uh, a single position, nicely paid position that that's their job is, is, uh, is to communicate, uh, communicate and come up with ideas as far as how to, not to reduce waste to eventually eliminate any waste, you know, so it's, uh, um, so it's, it's, like I said, it's rooted in our industry, it's, it's, uh, um, everything is, is, is, is It's cut to [00:39:00] fit, but, uh, there is a, there are pieces and bits and pieces that we go around and look and look in dumpsters and say, well, we, that can be used somewhere, you know, um, uh, for something, you know, so, uh, but it's, it falls in line with what Ben and Kevin were talking

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[00:39:15] Ben Roche: Hey, Tim, just quick. I want to jump in. Don't you? Clayton is also doing a zero energy home and I think an E built home. That's something that Palm Harbor is starting to look at for 2024 is going to zero energy and being able to price home. There's zero energy ready for solar. Can you maybe tie that on a little bit of Clayton's?

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[00:39:54] Tim Schweitzer: So, uh, the, as you go, it, what the idea is, is about a 50 [00:40:00] percent savings in, in, uh, in, in those, in those utility costs, electric costs, those types of things. Uh, but, uh, we are, we are starting our, our starting point is an energy star rated home. Um, Um, and then we also offer a, uh, heat pump, water heater, um, and that goes into the house.

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[00:40:41] Tim Schweitzer: Zers, what we're calling it, uh, E belt. So it's got a couple of different names. So

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[00:40:56] Brent Heckman: Absolutely. I can't really say much [00:41:00] more. Um, I think that was well put together.

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[00:41:24] Brent Heckman: You know, avoid the waste, the scrap

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[00:41:43] Eric Goranson: And you have one.

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[00:42:02] Ben Roche: Um, you know, and so of course, common things you'd typically recycle like steel and copper are all recycled. So we're not throwing things away as well that we can't use. We're actually recycling those back into the building industry.

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[00:42:21] Eric Goranson: So that way the, our audience out there can check you guys out. You

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[00:42:25] Brent Heckman: find a skyline homes at www. skylinehomes. com or Skyline Homes Northwest. Uh, we're in McMinnville proud to be Oregonians, Tim.

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[00:42:38] Tim Schweitzer: Clayton. Uh, we've got, uh, as I mentioned, we're down in Albany, so, but, uh, we have a website Clayton homes.

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[00:43:06] Tim Schweitzer: So.

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[00:43:08] Ben Roche: Ben. Well, Palm Harbor Homes is right on I 5 just south of Salem, but if you want to find us online, you can go to palmharbor. com slash Millersburg, and that's where you'll find all of our model homes and our model home locations up and down I 5. Our homes get shipped from the border of Canada all the way down to the middle of California and everywhere in between.

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[00:43:34] Eric Goranson: There we go. I see Tim's got something to say over

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[00:43:44] Tim Schweitzer: So, uh, getting everything on there and it's well done. Nice.

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[00:44:01] Eric Goranson: guys. Hey, thanks for having me out here today.

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[00:44:20] Eric Goranson: Thanks, Eric. Appreciate it. Thank you. I'm Eric G and you've been listening to around the house. Thanks for tuning in!