Episode 1963
Flippy and the Patent Predators: A Small Inventor's Journey
Juliette Fassett is on a mission to protect her brainchild, the "Flippy," as she battles big companies that she claims have ripped off her idea. In our first hour, we dive deep into her story, exploring the trials and tribulations small inventors face in a world where their innovations can easily be swiped by larger corporations. It’s a hefty discussion about the uphill battle of patent infringement, the struggles of bringing a product to market, and just how overwhelming it can feel when the odds are stacked against you. With a sprinkle of witty banter and real talk about the realities of entrepreneurship, Juliette shares her experiences and insights on why the little guy often gets squashed in the race to retail. Trust me, you won’t want to miss this eye-opening convo that’s all about innovation, integrity, and the fight for what's right!
Takeaways:
- Juliette Fassett's battle against patent infringement highlights the uphill struggle of small inventors in a market dominated by larger corporations.
- The conversation reveals how small businesses often find themselves financially strapped due to exorbitant litigation costs when defending their innovations.
- Eric and Juliette discuss the outdated nature of patent laws which leave inventors vulnerable to copycats and infringers without adequate support.
- The episode sheds light on the importance of consumer awareness regarding the origins of products they buy and the challenges faced by the original creators.
- Juliette shares her personal journey of developing the Flippy pillow, illustrating the lengthy and costly process of bringing an invention to market.
- The discussion emphasizes the need for systemic changes in how patent protection is enforced to better support small inventors and foster innovation.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Monument Grill
- Work IQ
- Ontel Products Company
- Flippy Pillow
- Real Avid
- Kroger
- Amazon
To get your questions answered by Eric G give us a call in the studio at 833-239-4144 24/7 and Eric G will get back to you and answer your question and you might end up in a future episode of Around the House.
Thanks for listening to Around the house if you want to hear more please subscribe so you get notified of the latest episode as it posts at https://around-the-house-with-e.captivate.fm/listen
If you want to join the Around the House Insider for access to the back catalog, Exclusive Content and a direct email to Eric G and access to the show early https://around-the-house-with-e.captivate.fm/support
We love comments and we would love reviews on how this information has helped you on your house! Thanks for listening! For more information about the show head to https://aroundthehouseonline.com/
Information given on the Around the House Show should not be considered construction or design advice for your specific project, nor is it intended to replace consulting at your home or jobsite by a building professional. The views and opinions expressed by those interviewed on the podcast are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of the Around the House Show.
Mentioned in this episode:
Monument Grill Omni-Pro Eminence Series 405
Eminence 405 enhances grilling efficiency with a smart App-synced full-color LED touch panel, a durable quality finish, and an upgraded heating system. Its sleek, modern ClearView® lid design represents the perfect blend of elegance and expert-level performance. To find out more visit: https://monumentgrills.com/collections/omni-eminence-series/products/eminence-405
Champion Homes at Design and Construction Week.
We're diving into the world of affordable housing and stellar construction, showcasing how Champion Homes is flipping the script on what factory-built housing can look like. Picture this: gorgeous three-bedroom, two-bath homes that don’t just meet the needs of today’s homebuyers but also come packed with style and efficiency. To find out MORE head to https://www.championhomes.com/
Transcript
Foreign.
Speaker B:The House with Eric G.
Speaker B:Your go to source for everything home improvement.
Speaker B:Whether you're a DIY enthusiast or just looking to make your space shine, Eric G.
Speaker B:Is here to guide you through the latest tips, tricks and trends coming up.
Speaker B:In this week's first hour of the show, Eric G.
Speaker B:Talks with inventor Juliet Fassett about a nationwide problem that has plagued inventors and small business owners with patents and trademarks that are trying to market the products they created.
Speaker C:Get in and you can start paying your fees.
Speaker C:And you're getting a, a mark that if you have the wherewithal and the ability to protect it, then you, you can protect it.
Speaker C:You have the ability to do that.
Speaker C:But I mean, through personal experience and in talking about my patents, we're looking at millions of dollars in litigation.
Speaker B:So grab your toolbox, put on your thinking cap and let's get to work right here on AROUND the House with.
Speaker A:Eric G.
Speaker A:Welcome to the Round the House show, the next generation of home improvement.
Speaker A:I'm Eric G.
Speaker A:Thanks for joining me today.
Speaker A:This hour is brought to you by my friends at Monument Grill.
Speaker A:If you're looking for that brand new barbecue this spring, check them out@monumentgrills.com and today we are going to be talking about a lot of things that everybody deals with, participates in and we're talking consumer products and how they get here and how you shop for them as well.
Speaker A:And we have Juliet Fassett, entrepreneur, inventor.
Speaker A:She created the original Flippy pillow.
Speaker A:If you don't know what that is, you gotta stick around.
Speaker A:Thanks for joining us here on AROUND the house.
Speaker A:How you doing, Juliet?
Speaker C:I am really good, sort of.
Speaker C:Eric.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:You know, we are sitting here right now and at the day of recording this, it is the third, we're watching the tariff game go full swing into effect last night.
Speaker A:And as an entrepreneur, you're sitting here this morning going, what is happening?
Speaker A:What are you seeing from your perspective?
Speaker C:So I woke up this morning very early.
Speaker C:My chief of operations who is here in Portland, her name is osa OSA sent me a text and said, okay.
Speaker C:It hit.
Speaker C:And the tariff that we had planned for the current shipment supposed to come in about two months.
Speaker C:We had planned on a tariff of about $10,800.
Speaker C:That tariff as of this morning is now almost $47,000.
Speaker A:Holy smokes.
Speaker A:And I'm trying to say words that are here that are radio friendly.
Speaker C:I should have done a profanity check with you first cause, yeah, maybe you'll have to beep some good.
Speaker A:I have buttons that do that.
Speaker A:So we're good.
Speaker C:We're good.
Speaker C:So, yeah.
Speaker C:So that is.
Speaker C:For a small business, that is a ridiculous amount of money.
Speaker C:And of course, it starts a whole domino effect.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker C:So a.
Speaker C:If I can come up with the extra cash, which is a lot of extra cash for a small business to come up with.
Speaker C:And of course I pay.
Speaker C:My cash is not cheap.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:I pay never is very expensive for small businesses in particular.
Speaker C:So if I can come up with the money and get the product in, the net result at retail is going to be possibly, it looks like an additional $10 at retail for the product, which is already considered.
Speaker C:The price that we sell the product for averages about $30, which we are not getting rich on.
Speaker C:$30 because of the fees and the existing tariffs and what it costs to.
Speaker C:All of the people involved in the business, myself included, are barely getting paid.
Speaker C:And it's a constant game of trying to figure out how to make any money here.
Speaker C:So this just basically is a freightliner truck to the face.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:Let's dive into something here before we get into that.
Speaker A:And I want to talk about the misconceptions that people see out there, the cost of money.
Speaker A:We have a severe banking problem for small businesses out there.
Speaker A:When you go get a loan for cash flow, things like that, product, things like that.
Speaker A:I have seen some astronomical numbers.
Speaker A:This is not the 7% that you might be looking at a home mortgage at.
Speaker C:You could only dream of such a thing, right?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, I'm seeing 20, 30.
Speaker A:Like, maybe your credit card's better than what the businesses do, which is, you know, the banking features.
Speaker A:It is incredible what some companies are paying just for operational cash flow out there.
Speaker C:That's right.
Speaker C:So if you look at APRs, I don't even ask my CFO anymore, like what the APR is, because I honestly, if he told me what it was.
Speaker C:Sometimes they're in the 40s, you know, it's just like, what is the point of doing this?
Speaker C:And so what that does is it depresses all kinds of economic development at the grassroots level because the cost of capital is so high.
Speaker C:It is a constant struggle.
Speaker C:It's the reason why larger companies always have an advantage, one of the reasons why they have a distinct advantage over smaller businesses.
Speaker C:And it's one of the reasons why it makes us so vulnerable with respect to our intellectual property, which is something else we're going to talk about.
Speaker A:We're going to dive into that because we are stepping right into my biggest pet peeve of everything out there, is that Right now.
Speaker A:So it is absolutely incredible.
Speaker A:And so, yes, without a banking solution or a cash flow solution for most of the businesses we see out there that aren't major U.S.
Speaker A:corporations, I mean, that adds so much inflation to the product price because now you need to order the next round of product.
Speaker A:And unfortunately, when you're dealing with retail sales, you might be getting paid, you've shipped product, but you might not get paid for 90 days.
Speaker C:That's right.
Speaker C:And we're in.
Speaker C:My business is particularly fourth quarter heavy.
Speaker C:So we dig a big hole during the front part of the year and then at the end of the year we kind of dig, get our head back out of the hole.
Speaker C:But you have to be able to withstand that negative cash flow for a large part of the year, which is very difficult to survive.
Speaker C:And you can do things like borrow against your future receivables, but that comes at a tremendous cost, too.
Speaker A:Exactly, exactly.
Speaker A:So when we see products that, let's say we're either on Shopify or Amazon or whatever, whatever that kind of retail source is that you're working through, that's a big significant part outside of the cost of the product itself that you have engineered, invented, created, brought to marketplace, which of course, you can spend hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars getting it to that point.
Speaker A:And then all of a sudden that Money has a 40%, you know, APR on it.
Speaker A:It's insane.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I think that to your point, most people look at a product on the shelf in a store and have no idea what is behind that product, the creation of it, the journey it took to get to the shelf, the people behind it and the costs and the difficulty of running a business to get it there profitably and how the whole thing works.
Speaker C:It's, you know, we take these things for granted and we have for a very long time.
Speaker C:So I think, you know, for me it's interesting because I'm part of that system.
Speaker C:It's interesting for me to break it down and look at it.
Speaker C:And I can't see a single new product on a shelf and not think about the people behind it now.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:I was at the National Hardware show here a few weeks ago and I'm talking to the new inventors and we were trying to come up with a marketing campaign.
Speaker A:And he goes, eric, I just bought product for this year.
Speaker A:He goes, I don't have $500 to spend on marketing right now because every dime is set up.
Speaker A:You know, my house is mortgaged.
Speaker C:It's just coming, you know, listen, these are my people.
Speaker C:These are my people.
Speaker C:We put everything on the line to get our dream a reality and to.
Speaker C:To make it work.
Speaker C:And once you have an indication that your product is sellable and it becomes valuable, you inversely become completely vulnerable to other factors.
Speaker C:But, you know, people sometimes say to me, oh, it's so great.
Speaker C:You're an entrepreneur.
Speaker C:You work for yourself.
Speaker C:That must be really awesome.
Speaker C:I want my son or daughter to consider becoming an entrepreneur.
Speaker C:And that is.
Speaker C:That is exactly.
Speaker C:I'm like, for the love of God, your children from doing this, because you can't even begin to understand the stress that you put your family under.
Speaker C:And then, you know, you also become a bit of a pariah because you're always doing the friends and family fundraising, you know, so it is just not an easy way to go.
Speaker C:And I can imagine you having that conversation at the hardware show again and again and again with all those people getting out there and putting their hard work into a product that is probably fantastic and giving it a go.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And these people are trying to get it into the hardware stores, they're getting it in the online communities.
Speaker A:And unfortunately.
Speaker A:And let's jump ahead a little bit here, because I think this is where the train.
Speaker A:I mean, if the train hasn't come off the tracks with the money part, trying to bring it to market, the next part is where literally.
Speaker A:And I'm going to.
Speaker A:I'm going to call out the US Government on this one in the Patent Trademark Office for these guys.
Speaker A:The uspto, our policies are so outdated there that you are now on the hunted list from your competitors.
Speaker A:And there is no one watching out for that small business's best interest because you bring the coolest thing to market.
Speaker A:And it seems like in 30 seconds, as soon as you make a dent, you now have everybody copying you and putting it to market for half the price of whatever yours is.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So the USPTO is.
Speaker C:It's very complex.
Speaker C:It has not kept up with the speed of how markets work.
Speaker C:So the law is decrepit and it's not doing the country a whole lot of favors.
Speaker C:There are components of the USPTO that are absolutely and demonstrably prohibiting small business and inventors and innovators from progressing forward and developing new products and new businesses around those products.
Speaker C:That is absolutely true.
Speaker A:And I can say this as around the house here, because I have a trademark on this as around the house.
Speaker A:If I go out there and start chasing down everyone that is violating my trademark across the country, just in the classifications that I have, which the US Government protects, and I'm using air quotes for all you listening on the radio show, on the podcast, it is now my obligation to go out and spend hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars potentially each year to protect it.
Speaker A:And the USPTO goes, yep, you have every right to do it.
Speaker A:Knock yourself out.
Speaker A:And I think we need to remake this entire system because you get that.
Speaker A:But it's completely on you to go do it.
Speaker A:And there's no small business inventor out there that could ever have a chance to chase this stuff down without some serious government help to back you up.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker C:And you know, it's ironic that the president, you know, made the bulk of his fortune licensing his trademarks.
Speaker A:Mm.
Speaker C:Which I think is really interesting because you can imagine what would happen with people trying to rip off and infringe on his trademarks.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:He's someone that can enforce his trademark.
Speaker A:95% of the people with trademarks out there cannot.
Speaker A:Would struggle to do that.
Speaker C:That's absolutely true.
Speaker C:The other thing about the USPTO is that it's run by fees.
Speaker C:So, so we are subsidizing an agency that has, is like, is, it's like a one way gate, right.
Speaker C:Like you can, you can get in and you can start paying your fees.
Speaker C:And what are you getting for it?
Speaker C:You're getting, you're getting.
Speaker C:Well, you're getting something.
Speaker C:You're getting a mark that if you have the wherewithal and the ability to protect it, then you, you can protect it.
Speaker C:You have the ability to do that.
Speaker C:But I mean, through personal experience and in talking about patents, we're looking at millions of dollars in litigation.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And who has that money?
Speaker A:No one does.
Speaker A:You know, and I know people out there that have purchased insurance to protect that.
Speaker A:And they still have to pay $20,000 out of pocket first.
Speaker A:And then it goes into.
Speaker A:They're covered up to 100, but then if they get any money back, that first pays off the insurance company.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:It's a sick cy.
Speaker C:So stupid.
Speaker C:I mean, really, come on, you're paying.
Speaker A:You know, huge premiums, and then there's really no way to win.
Speaker C:No, there is no way to win.
Speaker C:There really isn't.
Speaker C:And honestly, Eric, I think, I think something that, it's my understanding that the reason.
Speaker C:So this is.
Speaker C:You talk about the law, you talk about criminal versus civil.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker C:Trademark infringement, patent infringement.
Speaker C:This falls under civil litigation, which is very expensive and privately funded.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:I think we have to look at criminalizing this activity.
Speaker C:I think we have to.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker C:The Reason it doesn't rise to.
Speaker C:I think the way it's been explained to me, the reason it hasn't been criminalized is because you are supposed to be able to get monetary damages on the civil side.
Speaker C:But because of the avalanche of activity in infringement, there's no way people can get after it enough like you and me to get compensated.
Speaker C:So criminalization is one thing that I think would make a big difference.
Speaker A:I agree.
Speaker A:I've been watching another company that I saw at the hardware show a couple years ago and they don't know I'm talking about this.
Speaker A:So this is just my experience.
Speaker A:I want to make sure and say this.
Speaker A:Iq Vice.
Speaker A:So work iq vice.
Speaker A:They make this cool articulating vice.
Speaker A:They have all the patents, they have all the trademarks, they have everything there.
Speaker A:They throw it on Amazon last year for about 350 bucks.
Speaker A:They do.
Speaker A:Great.
Speaker C:Months later, where's it made?
Speaker C:Where's it made?
Speaker A:It's made in USA.
Speaker A:Made right here in the U.S.
Speaker A:great company.
Speaker A:What happens six months later?
Speaker A:And I'm on Amazon right now and I'm going to look at the exact copy right here that is made by Real Avid, which is a direct 100% knockoff.
Speaker A:Like they took it and made it overseas and they're selling it for 299.
Speaker A:Is do you know, copying this?
Speaker C:Is it an American company or.
Speaker A:No, this is coming right out of China or over Hershey's.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker A:Not made in America.
Speaker A:And I'm looking at it right here.
Speaker A:They have basically copied it.
Speaker A:And if I look down on their reviews and they've got a ton of them, I can tell you that they have sold so many of these as a copy knockoff.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:You know, and again, these guys have to go out.
Speaker A:They have, I'm going to see on their stuff right here.
Speaker A:I mean they've got so many reviews on here.
Speaker A:They've got 411 global ratings just on people that have taken the time to review it.
Speaker A:But it's a dead knockoff compared to.
Speaker C:Let me, let me try to untangle this a little bit.
Speaker C:So you don't actually know for sure that Real Avid is a Chinese.
Speaker C:It could be an American based company.
Speaker A:Very true.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:These could be Americans that have gone abroad and source taken your friend's product.
Speaker C:What's the name of the original patented version?
Speaker A:Work iq.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker C:So they could have taken the Work IQ product, taken it to China, had a lower quality knockoff created and then they're just importing it, right?
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker C:So it could be an American company.
Speaker C:Just importing the.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So that's, that's an important point.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And to add to your point, I could literally walk into Home Depot, walk down the faucet aisle, grab a package of your favorite name brand kitchen faucet.
Speaker A:I can jump on a website, I can UPS, FedEx, DXO, whatever, ship it overseas to a company in China and they take a look at it, take it apart.
Speaker A:And though it would be possibly against the law, they could ship that back to me in the same brand packaging and show up at pallets at my house.
Speaker C:It is absolutely against the law and it absolutely happens all the time.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker A:So this is how common this is.
Speaker C:So here's, and here's the problem as it relates to Amazon.
Speaker C:I don't know if your friend's company has possibly participated in the Apex program.
Speaker C:Does that sound familiar?
Speaker A:I've heard of it.
Speaker A:I have no idea because I haven't talked to him about it.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker C:So this is actually an interesting thing because it is something that Amazon has done to try to give some credence to US patent owners rights.
Speaker C:And Apex is a program where, and I've been through it, where you call out the people that are selling your patent infringing product.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:You call them out and they have a very cost effective third party evaluation process by which a third party trained patent evaluator will look at the ripoff and look at the original patent and see if there is infringement and then delist the product if infringement is found.
Speaker C:So if your friends.
Speaker C:Yes, but there are ways to game that system.
Speaker C:And this is where the rats keep getting smarter.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:There are ways for them to slow down the process, to halt the process.
Speaker C:It is not perfect, but it can be helpful.
Speaker C:And I like the Apex program and I like it as a template for other big retailers because I had the same problem with Walmart.
Speaker C:My Kroger story is particularly interesting.
Speaker C:Target, cvs, Walgreens, on and on and on.
Speaker C:But if we had retailers and the National Retail Federation, if they were engaged in a program like Apex, that would go a long way to helping people like us protect our patents in a cost effective manner.
Speaker C:And it really is cost effective for everybody.
Speaker C:A lot of these retailers will complain about the cost of administrating such a program.
Speaker C:But the truth is it's nothing.
Speaker C:These are multibillion dollar retail companies.
Speaker C:They can afford to run these little programs.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it just, it helps the businesses.
Speaker A:And you know something, if they advertise that out there as a, when you're dealing with us, we're protecting the small business.
Speaker A:Consumers would go, hey, that's cool.
Speaker C:I think that it really needs to be championed by the National Retail Federation and adopted across the board.
Speaker C:It's something that I'm working on, but we'll see how it goes now.
Speaker C:So let me explain something, the other side of this coin to you just.
Speaker C:And I know you know this, but let's make sure that your listeners kind of get an idea of how this works when you apply to be a vendor to any of these big retailers.
Speaker C:So your friends, obviously, they're trying to get into Lowe's and Home Depot, for example, Right?
Speaker C:They will sign a vendor agreement that says if there is any kind of intellectual property challenge to this product, it is not the retailer's responsibility to deal with it, it's the vendor's responsibility.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So they don't care if there's IP infringement.
Speaker C:What does the retailer care about?
Speaker C:They want to have cost performance on every square inch of real estate in that store.
Speaker C:They want products that come in and go out, which means they want the lowest possible prices for the best possible products.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So they don't have an incentive to protect IP unless their hand is put to the fire.
Speaker C:And this is how the retailers become, unfortunately, complicit.
Speaker C:I get it.
Speaker C:They're publicly traded.
Speaker C:They're trying to work on their shareholder value.
Speaker C:It's all about efficiency and floor space.
Speaker C:But they are destroying the innovation of all those inventors at the hardware show launching their products.
Speaker C:They are helping us to eat our own arm off.
Speaker C:And it's disgusting.
Speaker A:And not only is it square footage in a store, square inches, it's the same thing with their websites online.
Speaker C:Absolutely everything.
Speaker A:It's the same thing, the same program.
Speaker C:It's absolutely the same thing.
Speaker A:You know, and that's the problem now.
Speaker A:Great example.
Speaker A:I reach out to Apple when I find podcasts that are infringing on it, and about 60% of the time, Apple goes, oh, I see that.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:I mean, I even had one as a great example where somebody tried to copy the name and they tried to trademark it, and the USPTO went, heck, no.
Speaker A:You're.
Speaker A:You know, they.
Speaker A:There's no way you're going to do this.
Speaker A:I sent that letter that I could pull off the USPTO website to Apple and they went, yeah, you're going to have to deal with that civilly.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker A:Seriously, this.
Speaker A:They are calling this exact person out saying, no, that causes confusion.
Speaker C:You can't use that.
Speaker A:I send that over and I've got A letter saying that from the pto.
Speaker A:And Apple goes, yeah, that's still not enough.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So they're doing this thing now where they're like, yeah, you'll have to get a court order for us to pull this down.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's insane.
Speaker C:That's your job, Eric, is to go around policing trademark infringement and getting court orders.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that's the insanity part.
Speaker A:I know you see that as.
Speaker A:It's the same thing.
Speaker A:It's like, oh, yeah, great.
Speaker A:So now I'm gonna have to hire eight attorneys because now I'm gonna have to deal with them in the states that are dealing with that.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:The net effect of this is, you know, when you look at the net effect of it is really just destruction at the bottom of the economy and concentration of wealth.
Speaker C:It all just rolls up to the people that are the strongest and can just get away with this type of theft.
Speaker A:Now, on the retail side, let's talk about, like, the Costcos and those kind of people.
Speaker A:If you go into Costco, usually, my experience with companies that I've worked with in the past, they want to see whatever that number is, 10, 12, 15%, your product has to be cheaper than other retail locations of that product or similar product.
Speaker A:The problem is, if you've got somebody ripping off on Amazon that's copying your product, that's now 40%.
Speaker A:That really hurts your relationship there because those big box retailers go, well, that's cheaper.
Speaker A:That's not a good deal for our members.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:So, Eric, that's a.
Speaker C:That's actually.
Speaker C:That's a great segue into the example of what happens to me.
Speaker C:So my product.
Speaker C:Okay, so my product, which is a tablet accessory, right.
Speaker C:I created and patented, and this is hyperbole, but not so much.
Speaker C:It is like the best tablet accessory on the planet.
Speaker C:I mean, I have one.
Speaker A:Yes, it is.
Speaker C:That's right.
Speaker C:I sent you one.
Speaker A:You sent me one.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker C:Do you like it?
Speaker A:It's awesome.
Speaker A:Works well.
Speaker C:I'm so glad you think so.
Speaker C:So that product, which took seven years to develop and patent, Right.
Speaker C:Seven years of my life and my husband's life, who's an optical engineer, we patented.
Speaker C:We did all the right stuff.
Speaker C:And I start my businesses, I always have, by doing what I call bump starting the business, which a bunch of your listeners will recall having a stick shift car and having to roll start it, right?
Speaker C:So true.
Speaker C:I bump start my.
Speaker C:I don't go out and raise a bunch of money based on pie in the sky projections.
Speaker C:On paper, I develop the Products, I start selling them, I get cash moving through the company, and then I go out.
Speaker C:Once I've proven the viability of my product, then I go out and raise money.
Speaker C:And it takes a very long time to do this, of course.
Speaker C: sellout on QVC in November of: Speaker C:Sold out in November.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:Half a million dollars in sales in 12 and a half minutes.
Speaker C:It was spectacular, right?
Speaker C:Spectacular.
Speaker A:Spectacular.
Speaker C: By February of: Speaker C:And my girlfriend from la, Bonnie calls me and says, there's a flippy ripoff on television.
Speaker C:I was like, no, it can't be.
Speaker C:It's probably not an.
Speaker C:It's probably just a Me too.
Speaker C:Something that kind of looks like.
Speaker C:No, this was an actual patent infringing ripoff selling on television.
Speaker C: By the summer of: Speaker C:And when I reached out to them, okay, so I'm sending, you know, letters telling the people that this product is a ripoff of mine.
Speaker C:Mm, the head.
Speaker C:It's, it's disgusting.
Speaker C:They ignore you because they have these indemnifications agreements from the vendor.
Speaker C:So they don't give a shit.
Speaker C:They don't know.
Speaker C:So what happened?
Speaker C:In particular the case, the case with Kroger is really interesting.
Speaker C:So here in the Pacific Northwest, we have a Kroger retailer called Fred Meyer.
Speaker C:There's about, I don't know how many stores, how many doors they have, as they say, locations.
Speaker C:It's, it's, I think it's around 300, maybe more.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:So, so, you know, of course all my friends in town are familiar with what I'm doing and everyone sees the rip off in Fred Meyer.
Speaker C:I start, my phone is blowing up, as we say, with friends congratulating me on the huge display in Fred Meyer.
Speaker C:And I have to explain to all these people, no, this is a ripoff.
Speaker C:This is not my product.
Speaker C:So I reach out to Kroger.
Speaker C:I have, you know, the head of the headquarters for Fred Meyer are right across the river from me in Portland, and I know many people that have worked there.
Speaker C:And actually I had a former employee of my own company that left to go work there.
Speaker C:And so the woman that I knew that had previously worked there said, you know, the company is all about expanding their vendor base and including women owned businesses.
Speaker C:So you should write, you should write to Kroger and tell them about this situation and see if they will work with you.
Speaker C:So I wrote to Kroger.
Speaker C:And what happened?
Speaker C:Their head of IP wrote me a note saying not only was my letter, it was a little strident the way I phrased it.
Speaker C:Not only was my letter not well received, but they're not going to do anything about this problem because by policy, right, Air quotes, policy.
Speaker C:What they do is they send my complaint back to the people who are stealing from me to get this resolved, right?
Speaker C:This guy says to me, we have nothing to.
Speaker C:We're just making bank on your product.
Speaker C:We don't really give a shit.
Speaker C:We want you to go back to that billion dollar company that's ripping you off and we want you to work it out with them.
Speaker C:Them.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:So that's bad enough, right?
Speaker C:That's bad enough.
Speaker C:But then many months later, I was on the phone with my friend Josh Malone.
Speaker C:Josh Malone created a product called Bunch of Balloons.
Speaker C:Best selling toy on the planet, pretty much.
Speaker C:I mean, huge, huge, huge hit success.
Speaker C:We're on the phone and we're talking about Kroger and he says, yeah, that, that head of IP for Kroger really did not like having to testify in my lawsuit.
Speaker C:He was not happy to be put on the stand.
Speaker C:And I said, wait a minute, I know that.
Speaker C:I know that guy.
Speaker C:That's the guy that told me to piss off.
Speaker C:When did that happen, Josh?
Speaker C:And he gave me the date.
Speaker C:That same guy had been subpoenaed and had testified in Josh's lawsuit a year before.
Speaker C:I reached out to him to tell him, and here's the clincher.
Speaker C:You know what?
Speaker C:It's the same company that infringed on Josh's product, that infringed on mine.
Speaker C:It is a.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker C:A cartel, in my opinion, of a process that disembowels inventors and innovators.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker C:Then there's nothing you can do.
Speaker A:Knowingly being done.
Speaker A:Knowingly being done.
Speaker C:100%.
Speaker C:100%.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker C:Isn't that crazy?
Speaker C:That's so crazy.
Speaker A:Not.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker A:It's there.
Speaker A:You know, clearly you've got companies out there that are looking at things going, guess what?
Speaker A:We're making our money, we're making our margins.
Speaker A:We've got great margins and we are not worried about the ethics of doing business.
Speaker C:I don't think ethics is like these people, the people that run this company, Ontel.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:Let's just say scumbag's gonna scum, right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:I mean, come on, these are billionaires.
Speaker C:These people fly on private jets.
Speaker C:I mean, these people and their attorneys, I might add, are also scumbags.
Speaker C:We're talking 1% people that steal from people like you and me to be able to keep their jet share and their $20 million condo purchases in Miami and their private jet trips to Paris going.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:And they just go take another product and make more margin to pay for the next set of lawsuits.
Speaker C:And a lot of people get worked up thinking China is the source of so much of this right here.
Speaker C:Homegrown, fraudulent patent, trademark infringement all day long right here.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker C:Just happens to be in New Jersey.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And they're just outsourcing the product to the cheapest place they can find it because quality is not a concern.
Speaker C:You're just going to move product.
Speaker C:So this is actually a really good point, Eric, and this is where things get complex.
Speaker C:Both of us make our product in China.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:My product, as much as I tried and I tried very, very hard to make it in the U.S.
Speaker C:what I learned, and I knew this because I was in the fashion industry before, was that the type of cut and sew business, this type of textile manufacturing business, does not exist anymore in the US it does to some extent.
Speaker C:We do have sweatshops that exist in the U.S.
Speaker C:but the size of this industry is very small.
Speaker C:And I'm not sure that it's even in our best interest to try to encourage that type of manufacturing to come back to the US I'm not sure we even want it.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker A:Excellent point.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:I don't think it's in our best interest for a variety of reasons.
Speaker C:So I don't.
Speaker C:What I do is I have my factories audited for health and safety of the workers.
Speaker C:And I have been working with the same factory for a very long time and feel comfortable doing business with them.
Speaker C:We're very friendly and collaborative.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So I don't know the factories that this other company, Ontel, is using.
Speaker C:I don't know if they're using Uyghur labor, which is essentially slave labor.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker A:100% is.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:But what I can tell you is that we also employ an enormous amount of Americans on this side of the equation between marketing operations, warehousing, fulfillment, shipping.
Speaker C:It's just because the source of my product is China does not mean that we don't help to employ a lot of Americans along the supply chain.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker C:And so this is one of the complexities of this situation, and it's just not a simple, everything has to be made in the US Kind of you can't just throw a switch.
Speaker C:We have to be selective and strategic about the industries that we want to encourage to stay here and the ones that we want to encourage to come back.
Speaker A:Yes, 100%.
Speaker C:And through the history of time, the world has chased less expensive labor costs.
Speaker C:This has been going on since we started manufacturing clubs.
Speaker A:In the 80s when I was a kid.
Speaker A:Oh, that's made in Japan.
Speaker C:Right, right, right.
Speaker A:And you know, I'm 54 years old.
Speaker A:Oh, that's made in Japan.
Speaker A:Oh, you bought one of the Fender guitars.
Speaker A:Oh, that's the Japan version.
Speaker A:That's not as good.
Speaker C:Oh my God, Eric.
Speaker C:So check this out, check this out.
Speaker C:In the late 80s, I lived in Japan.
Speaker C:I was a ski instructor in Japan.
Speaker C:And then I also worked at Toyota Chuo Kenkyusho.
Speaker C:Toyota Chuo Kenkyusho is the think tank for Toyota Corporation.
Speaker C:So I was teaching English to people that were the best scientists for Toyota in the entire world.
Speaker C: And this is: Speaker C:I'm having conversations with my clients about what they were working on.
Speaker C:These are physicists.
Speaker C:And they said, we're working on a battery for an electric car.
Speaker C:And I was like, electric car?
Speaker C:What are you talking about?
Speaker A:Is that a toy?
Speaker C:What is that smoking, whatever.
Speaker C:Like, you know, and they said, juliet, in your lifetime, you are going to drive an electric car.
Speaker C:And of course I was like, have you guys ever heard of a little company called Exxon?
Speaker C:Like, exactly.
Speaker C:Like, I couldn't, I couldn't believe.
Speaker C:But you know, and look, this is, you know, not that far away.
Speaker A:I mean, this is very close.
Speaker A:60 years from then, you know.
Speaker C:Yes, these things, this is how development happens.
Speaker C:It happens very slowly.
Speaker C:Over time, things change.
Speaker C:And I think that we have to really be careful about wishing to have certain parts of manufacturing come back to the States.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:I think what we have to do is one, we need to really not just fly off the handle on that, but really be strategic in that.
Speaker C:Yes, I agree with you.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker A:But really, it doesn't matter if we do.
Speaker A:If we can't protect a majority of business owners out there that are being victimized by other, like you said, American companies that are not innovating their gym, just ripping and repeating.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:Well, a friend of mine, Byrne, said, you know what their R D stands for?
Speaker C:It's not research and development, it's rip off and duplicate.
Speaker A:Exactly, exactly.
Speaker C:It's just their M.O.
Speaker A:If I walk into my local luxury plumbing retailer, the little shop here in Portland like Chown Hardware, that's been there for, you know, 145 years.
Speaker A:And I go talk to their.
Speaker A:They're wonderful people, the great family.
Speaker A:If I go talk to their sales people, every week they have people coming in to buy parts for their luxury shower system that they're.
Speaker A:That they ordered online that had the name brand on it.
Speaker A:But when they order the parts, maybe it's for a shower, it's a.
Speaker A:A valve extension or something like that.
Speaker A:And the people come back and go, it doesn't fit.
Speaker A:Where would you get it?
Speaker A:I bought it from this online retailer.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:It doesn't fit because it was a knockoff piece.
Speaker C:It wasn't an original from that manufactured by that company.
Speaker C:That is required by the engineering of the real maker.
Speaker A:Yes, exactly.
Speaker A:And this.
Speaker A:This happens to this day.
Speaker A:And people are putting in absolute garbage out there.
Speaker A:And so many people don't even realize it, though, you know?
Speaker C:So not too long after Fred Meyer started selling the ripoff, I an email from a woman that lives in Vancouver, Washington, and she said, you know, I bought this product at Fred Meyer, and I got a problem here because this thing has bled red all over my very expensive white duvet.
Speaker C:And she contacted me, thinking.
Speaker C:Thinking it was a flippy when it was a pillow pad sold by Fred Meyer that they sourced from Ontel.
Speaker C:And I had to explain to her that it wasn't my product.
Speaker C:It's like, why don't.
Speaker C:Why don't they just, you know, stick a pencil in my eye?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:I mean, come on.
Speaker A:And your only choice is to go after and spend potentially a million dollars on litigation.
Speaker C:It's millions.
Speaker A:Chasing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker A:Chasing this stuff down.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker A:And that's way more than any company's profit margins are.
Speaker A:So on paper, your hamstring, you can't do anything about it.
Speaker C:And I am very fortunate to actually now be in litigation against these companies.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker A:And I know we can't probably talk too much about that, but at least you're in the process of that, because I know how litigation goes on that you get stuck and.
Speaker A:And, But, I mean, sheesh.
Speaker A:Finally, you probably have millions of dollars in damages out there that you're trying to get.
Speaker C:Well, you know, attorneys don't take cases if they don't think that they're going to win it, and they don't feel confident that there's recovery to be made.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker A:So maybe you'll get some jet, some titles to jets and things like that.
Speaker C:I'm going to own a bunch of real estate in Miami.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker A:You'll have two Gulf Streams sitting in an airport someplace that you got a Title to while you're going, I won't.
Speaker C:Be able to afford to move it five feet, correct?
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker C:I'm going to sit in it while.
Speaker A:You'Re trying to figure out how you're paying for gas for your car next week.
Speaker A:I mean, that's the thing of a small business owner, right?
Speaker C: Like it the: Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker A:Well, we are running out of time in the show here, but I really wanted to bring this attention up and you and I will continue this conversation another episode because I know we have just scratched the surface of this and we could make this into a three hour Joe Rogan show where we're sitting here diving into this.
Speaker A: But I really want to, in: Speaker A:Every single one of my friends that have a service or business that is trademark patented is fighting this exact same battle.
Speaker A:Which just means that for you people, the consumers out there, that's showing up in the cost of your products and.
Speaker C:The function of them.
Speaker C:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker C:Thank you so much, Eric.
Speaker C:I want you to refer anyone that's having patent infringement problems to me because I have become very active and an advocate for helping people like myself.
Speaker C:And I have met in the past many years an enormous amount of attorneys and funders of litigation and ways.
Speaker C:I've learned ways to try to address these problems.
Speaker C:So I will do anything I can to help other American inventors and innovators protect their patents.
Speaker A:Perfect.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Guys, send me a message over here@aroundthehouseonline.com that goes into my email box.
Speaker A:I will connect you with Juliet.
Speaker A:And then of course, people out there that need to have something where they can sit there and use their tablet while they're laying on the couch or the bed.
Speaker A:And they gotta get the original flippy pillow.
Speaker A:Not the bad copy one that's gonna ruin your couch or whatever else.
Speaker A:Juliet, where do they find those?
Speaker C:We sell primarily on Amazon.
Speaker A:There we go.
Speaker A:There we go.
Speaker A:I'll put the link in the show notes down here where you can find that.
Speaker A:So that way you can find it out there, guys.
Speaker A:So that way it's on the podcast on the radio.
Speaker A:Just head over to around the House online and look at the podcast.
Speaker A:You'll find it over there as well.
Speaker A:Juliet, thanks for taking the time today.
Speaker A:This has been so informative.
Speaker A:I learned a lot and I've been watching this for a while of how this problem just keeps growing and growing.
Speaker C:And growing, growing I really appreciate you taking an interest in this problem, Eric.
Speaker C:I'll look forward to having a beer together.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:We're just getting started on this one.
Speaker A:Thanks again.
Speaker C:I'm going to be setting up camp in your garage.
Speaker A:You got it.
Speaker A:You got it.
Speaker A:I'm Eric G.
Speaker A:You've been listening to around the House.
Speaker B:We will see you next week for more around the House.
