Healthy Building with Andew Pace plus we talk a little Scotch and Whiskey - Around the House® Home Improvement

Episode 1232

Healthy Building with Andew Pace plus we talk a little Scotch and Whiskey

If you are remodeling or building we dont want to pick the wrong products that might give us issues later. We talk with Andrew Pace, a nationally recognized expert on green and healthy building products. As founder of the oldest healthy building supply company in the United States, Andrew has become one of the single most helpful and educational experts dealing with the day-to-day concerns of those individuals who suffer from allergies, asthma and chemical sensitivities. As the leading expert on the topic of Human Health vs Environmental Health, Andrew launched a new green building product rating system called Degree of Green, which is being used by consumers to eliminate the confusion within the green building realm and to help guide consumers to what they truly need.

Andrew has lent his expertise in the field of technical product knowledge to the National Healthy Homes Conference, Paint and Decorating Contractors Association, the Construction Specifications Institute, and the National Hardware Manufacturers Association, as well as numerous regional conferences and presentations.

Andrew is also the host of the NonToxic Environments Home Health and Wellness Podcast.

To find out more about The Green Design Center and Andrew Pace head to https://www.thegreendesigncenter.com/

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Transcript
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[00:00:30] Andrew Pace: As the house raft starts to flap. The staples tear and to get wind driven rain right through that scene, that the Huber zip system eliminates that as a problem. Nice. And we find that exact, especially in a healthy home situation, the less moisture into the home during construction, the better off you're going to be in the long run for a variety of reasons

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[00:00:54] Eric Goranson: when it comes to remodeling and renovating your home. There is a lot to know [00:01:00] this is around the house.

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[00:01:18] Eric Goranson: Carol? I am

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[00:01:39] Andrew Pace: Wow. Thank you very much for that introduction.

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[00:01:48] Andrew Pace: So if you don't

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[00:02:02] Andrew Pace: let's build the store. All right. Well, I guess my best way to go is my background. You know, I got out of, uh, got a school.

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[00:02:37] Andrew Pace: And so get out a school. What do I want to do? I want to work for the family business. And I convinced my father that it was, I would be a good addition to the company. He was really encouraging me to spread my wings and do whatever I want to do, but I honestly just had this desire to be in the world of commercial architecture and design [00:03:00] my first gig.

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[00:03:39] Andrew Pace: And this is 1992. So we all thought water-based meant safe. Right? That's how it started out. Yeah, absolutely. Right. That's what we thought. And so we, but we still took precautions. We put up the plastic, we covered up all the air ducks just to make sure that no dust and [00:04:00] no, uh, chemical fumes when throughout the building.

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[00:04:39] Andrew Pace: And he complained, well,

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[00:04:44] Andrew Pace: complaining. No, no, I don't want to be on some list, you know, so, right, right. And so I think that the, the, the big thing, the big event that happened was [00:05:00] we actually had three of our own workers rushed to the hospital because of inhalation complications.

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[00:05:13] Caroline Blazovsky: but

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[00:05:34] Andrew Pace: And so our, our workers couldn't breathe because of the codings we were provided. What's the job on hold, uh, ran around the country, called every person I knew in the industry, if see, they can solve this issue. And we found a very small company in California called AFM a more American formulated in manufacturing, an AFM made coding.[00:06:00]

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[00:06:21] Andrew Pace: Why doesn't the industry use these well, I learned lesson the hard way that the industry didn't care and to the most point still doesn't care

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[00:06:46] Eric Goranson: And so I've, I've been in that same boat where if it costs them $4 more on the entire project, that's $4.

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[00:07:10] Andrew Pace: They can modify their spending a little bit differently in, in commercial work, because you're dealing with a board of directors you're dealing with a major financing in a $50 million project. Yep. Yep. You're right. $4 more is that's no bueno. They're not going to do it.

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[00:07:36] Eric Goranson: Correct. And they don't want to have to own that being spec. If there's a failure, there's a huge liability there. So you almost, it's an interesting project. That's so different than residential construction, because you almost have to talk to the architect. Like they're the home. And then the building owners, the bank, and then you got to have the contractor, that's got to at least approve that.

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[00:08:16] Caroline Blazovsky: I have never really talked about the liability standpoint, right?

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[00:08:37] Caroline Blazovsky: Cause I noticed nobody wants to take liability. Like I just had this conversation, we doing a mold remediation project and they're like, okay, well you have to write protocol for this. They're molder mediation company doesn't want to take responsibility. So it's being pushed back to the consultant, right?

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[00:09:11] Caroline Blazovsky: There, you know, money is there, but also just not wanting to have to come back and repeat something. You know, they get people get afraid.

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[00:09:57] Andrew Pace: Right? However, [00:10:00] the way we look at things right now is what if it fails? Who's responsible that fail. You don't care

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[00:10:07] Andrew Pace: Right? Right.

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[00:10:31] Caroline Blazovsky: Right. I see them spend their whole life savings to fight. Even though we know that this played a part in the death, it's next to impossible to prove. So that's why they don't worry about it, but they do worry about it failing because it seems to be an easier case to prove is that.

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[00:10:52] Andrew Pace: And if you're going to find the correct medical professionals who will actually be a, a, a, a witness expert [00:11:00] witness. Exactly. So, you know, I look at when, when Johns Manville came up with formaldehyde free fiberglass installation was that 10 years ago, within the first month of them bringing this out, they had to buy full-page ad in the trade publication saying, we didn't do this for any health reasons.

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[00:11:28] Eric Goranson: Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. You know, it's crazy how that stuff gets laid out in the media and how they want to have that stuff in their PR

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[00:11:42] Andrew Pace: Liability for who's responsible if what was chosen, doesn't work. But we look at it more so as liability of, of specifying materials or using materials that are known to be dangerous. Why do we continue to use these things? But this, this is the industry we're in [00:12:00] Andrew. What are you

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[00:12:12] Eric Goranson: Is there stuff that you go, wow, this is,

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[00:12:38] Andrew Pace: Flooring is number one, because it's a large area you're dealing with and it's usually a thicker material. So thicker materials will off gas longer. And then you have your walls, your wall finishes paints and coatings cabinetry. Cabinetry is a huge one. That is again, that people don't think about too much, but every [00:13:00] time you open up the cabinet to grab a plate, you get that big rush of formaldehyde right in the face.

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[00:13:25] Andrew Pace: But at the end of the day, that's all I responsible for 10% of the overall load that you're going to face inside of this. So we really focus on that 90%,

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[00:13:46] Caroline Blazovsky: They can market it as a low VOC, but that's all marketing. So you're always going to get vaulter organic compounds that come off painting. And when you paint these things stay around for 18 months. So if you're one of those [00:14:00] people that like likes to change your color in your house, like you change your shoes, you're in for a big chemical load, just because you keep painting all the time.

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[00:14:20] Andrew Pace: for a long time.

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[00:14:53] Andrew Pace: You know, overall a paint company has to reduce their manufactured. VOC by X amount [00:15:00] was still allows them to make the really high VOC stuff. Cause it averages out to be at that level. It needs to be at inside of a home, a VOC, which is a volatile organic compound, any carbon based molecule that's readily vaporized at room temperature that could react with nitrogen and UV to create low-level smog inside of a home.

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[00:15:45] Andrew Pace: With the EPA, they have 37 or more. Now what are called, um, unregulated VOC is that they have been given exemption by the EPA for manufacturers to use in their materials. Because [00:16:00] even though they're probably toxic, which is irrelevant to them, they don't actually create low-level smog so they can use them.

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[00:16:16] Eric Goranson: Wow.

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[00:16:40] Andrew Pace: So I should be telling my

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[00:16:43] Andrew Pace: acetate. Yes. That's ethanol.

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[00:16:57] Eric Goranson: start doing less painting [00:17:00] and more drinking. How's

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[00:17:06] Andrew Pace: or formulate a new paint made from whiskey. Oh, there we go. But the problem

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[00:17:18] Caroline Blazovsky: Okay. So just to bring some light, cause we're talking about real serious topic, but we always have to talk about fun on this show. So we're going to talk about, cause we're talking about whiskey right now, Andrew, besides being this incredible environmental consultant that wants to save the world has a passion because we all have passions.

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[00:17:51] Andrew Pace: So I, you know, when I started my career in healthy home, uh, consulting and material supply, I became a, a students that I've [00:18:00] never been before.

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[00:18:29] Andrew Pace: And I was the youngest president ever in the country for this organization. And I remember at the installation. Somebody asked if they would, if they could buy me a drink. And I said, oh, sure. I'd love to have something. I looked quickly at the back of the bar to see if I recognize anything, because I wasn't going to order a bud light or something.

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[00:18:53] Andrew Pace: So I looked in the back of the bar and I said, yeah, I'll take a door's and water. Uh, do doers as a type of [00:19:00] blended scotch. And I thought, I'm going to look cool. I'm going to be drinking a doers and water. I have no idea what it tastes like. It doesn't matter. I love fell in love with it and it would just, it was all, I was gonna say downhill, but it's actually an uphill from there because I learned so much, uh, a very good friend of mine.

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[00:19:45] Andrew Pace: And I find that

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[00:19:49] Andrew Pace: scotch whiskey Somalia.

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[00:20:03] Andrew Pace: It's my desire to learn more. It's my desire to dig deep into things.

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[00:20:34] Andrew Pace: So it's a, yeah, that is my passion

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[00:20:47] Eric Goranson: professional drinker.

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[00:20:55] Andrew Pace: Whiskey is your way and that's the right way. Don't let [00:21:00] anybody ever tell you that you have to drink it need, you have to drink it over an ice cube. You got to drink it with water. You drink it the way you like to drink it. Nice. And I remember when I was getting my certificate, the woman who was conducting the last course, uh, she was from Poland and she drank her whiskey with lemon.

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[00:21:47] Andrew Pace: You can add in a drop of water, you add in one drop of water, you look at the glass and you can actually see the alcohol swirling. That's an exothermic reaction at the, the alcohol is actually heating up because of the. [00:22:00] And what'll happen is the ethanol will start to leave the glass and you'll get hit with these bass notes of what the whiskey actually is

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[00:22:10] Andrew Pace: Exactly. They are, they are, but no smog. Correct. So, but then you'll find your sweet spot. You'll find it where it actually is. Good for you on your palette. Yep. Now at any given moment, there are over 3000 different bottles of scotch whiskey alone for sale in the world, 3000 different expressions. And that's the only from 115 distilleries.

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[00:22:52] Eric Goranson: Yeah, I've I've, I'm lucky. My re my, uh, my freezer in my fridge is a, the LG one that comes out and gives the little, a [00:23:00] clear golf ball, sized ice cubes, which is kind of cool. It's perfect.

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[00:23:20] Andrew Pace: stuff down. Exactly and that's, that's the thing, you know, I, I may be a scotch whiskey, Somalia.

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[00:23:46] Andrew Pace: And so this is why most people will drink bourbon over a glass of ice because that ice cube, as it melts will actually, uh, provide that same exothermic reaction. Uh, [00:24:00] the colder, the spirit is the more shut down the alcohol is. But though, you know, there are whisky purists that say you got to drink a neat, because if you don't experience that Kentucky hug, you're not really getting a good drink of whiskey.

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[00:24:16] Eric Goranson: true. Very true. But yeah, it's a man, there are so many great whiskeys out there. You know, I'm much more of a bourbon guy, uh, but I have no problem with, uh,

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[00:24:43] Andrew Pace: Bourbon is a little sweeter because corn, alcohol is sweeter. Yup. Um, people who are scotch whiskey drinkers have a tendency to kind of go, you know, whatever you're pouring, I'll take. Yeah. Uh, but I started with Scott's. Oh, there you go. That's why

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[00:25:07] Eric Goranson: So that's kinda how I slid into that. So there a hundred percent, right. Because that's the way I went with it

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[00:25:17] Eric Goranson: there's some good inexpensive, you don't have to go crazy with good whiskey out there. There's some great inexpensive whiskeys out there. You don't have to go spend a, a ton of money for, for stuff out there.

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[00:25:28] Andrew Pace: Oh, agreed. Uh, great. If you know, in the bourbon world, if you're spending more than $50 a bottle you're overspending. Yeah. Um, in scotch whiskey is a little different, but you're looking at, um, I mean, I, I've probably, I won't say how much I've spent for bottles of whiskey, but for scotch, but you know, I got a bottle.

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[00:26:08] Andrew Pace: little bay, O B a N. They're a great value. Oh yeah. It's the type of whiskey that's called a NAS or a non aged statement. So in scotch whiskey, it's gotta be a minimum three years old to be legally called scotch. Um, but they don't have to put the, the, the age statement on the label if they don't want to, if they do put an age statement like a 12 year old Glenlivet, that means that the, the youngest spirit in the bottle is 12 years old.

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[00:26:54] Andrew Pace: Yeah.

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[00:27:09] Andrew Pace: taste. Exactly. I did a tasting the Macallan several years ago, and we had anything up to, uh, from a, from a new make all the way up to a 25 year old.

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[00:27:32] Eric Goranson: that for so much longer and you've just got so much more labor

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[00:27:36] Andrew Pace: Exactly. Right.

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[00:27:50] Caroline Blazovsky: It could be wall material, maybe a cock, maybe paint, so shot and then five

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[00:28:04] Caroline Blazovsky: it. I want to see what Eric's got over there, Eric, for some reason, I can't see you full bore. I need to be able to see you.

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[00:28:11] Andrew Pace: Well, I will,

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[00:28:19] Caroline Blazovsky: I'll say

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[00:28:30] Andrew Pace: uh, that stuff. So. Oh, it's well, you know, it affectionately called the cream in your coffee because it's, it's like Irish cream, but may with bourbon.

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[00:28:41] Eric Goranson: That's

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[00:28:44] Andrew Pace: I'm your girl. Yeah. Yeah. It's good. And that over ice cream is good for a little dessert. Yeah. I'm only doing,

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[00:29:05] Eric Goranson: so I had to hit the brakes on something. So

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[00:29:13] Andrew Pace: So

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[00:29:17] Andrew Pace: Yeah. Expert level.

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[00:29:36] Andrew Pace: Maybe that's where the whiskey love started there. Joe Jack Daniels. Exactly

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[00:29:46] Andrew Pace: So what's your drink in there? That looks good. So this is the old bond a little bit. This is actually a, um, uh, it's a Glen Karen Glass, but it's black. It's completely opaque so that I do a lot of blind tastings. [00:30:00] People want to get, um, like descriptions of whiskeys and if you'd pour them up blind and taste them without being able to see the spirit, you won't be affected by what the color should be imparting in the flavor.

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[00:30:16] Eric Goranson: Yeah,

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[00:30:20] Eric Goranson: Doesn't very much for the rockstar.

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[00:30:28] Andrew Pace: him. He honestly, he, I loved him. Um, but you know, it was time. It was time he was done. He was done.

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[00:31:01] Andrew Pace: When I got started in this business in 1992, the very first manufacturer follows a company called AFM safe coat out of California. They still exist today as being the only manufacturer of, of, uh, Paints and coatings that do not off gas, the block, the off gassing of what's underneath. I can't tell you how often we get phone calls on a daily basis from people saying I used XYZ paint six years ago or six months ago, and it's still off gas and I can't live in my house.

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[00:31:58] Andrew Pace: There are some stores across the country that carry [00:32:00] it, but most of it's being sold online. So it's kind of difficult to get. Compared to going down a Walmart or Sherwin-Williams and getting, getting your pants. Right. But it's definitely

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[00:32:15] Andrew Pace: you know, it used to be, it used to be, but they have a fan deck now of about 1400 colors and they'll match any other paint brand.

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[00:32:55] Andrew Pace: What happens is lime raises the pH to a level of about [00:33:00] 13. Wow. At that high of a pH mold cannot sustain. Nothing's

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[00:33:05] Andrew Pace: that. Right? Well, think of, think of farmers years ago, they used to lime wash their barns once a year to get rid of the mold. Calwell invented a way to actually partially encapsulate that lime with acrylic so that the top end still stays open and active, but it doesn't necessarily, um, neutralize right away.

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[00:34:13] Andrew Pace: It's very inexpensive insurance to make sure that you're not going to have mold on those exterior walls.

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[00:34:31] Andrew Pace: It's all good. Uh, we actually haven't seen that, um, because you know, again, it's going to be on the inside, um, as opposed to, you know, going onto the, uh, the outside where you might have some, some of those Simpson plates. Exactly. There there's, there's a, um, it doesn't necessarily penetrate into the wood.

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[00:35:21] Andrew Pace: And that's trying to get out and it's, it's going to go through a switch plate covers and outlets and cracks and crevices, and try to get out somehow, if it gets stuck in that cavity wall, it could under the right circumstances, turn into a mold situation. Yeah, Andrew we've had,

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[00:35:44] Eric Goranson: October all the way into about June, where we could have literally 30 to 40 days straight of measurable precipitation and you've got people building. So the problem that we end up having is is that they end up sitting out there and I can drive [00:36:00] past, especially if it's a product to a, project's been delayed for instance, or, or they're doing multiple times or waiting for the roofer to show up or whatever, you know, sometimes a house will sit there for, for two or three weeks as they're framing it, waiting for maybe more trusted to show up.

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[00:36:18] Andrew Pace: like it's black. Right? Exactly. And

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[00:36:23] Andrew Pace: off they go and I'm like, all, oh boy, well that actually brings up product number three, a product that we don't sell, but I recommend all the time. It's the, uh, the Huber zip system. Yup. For exterior.

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[00:37:00] Andrew Pace: Yup. The Huber zip system eliminates that as a problem. Nice. And we find that exactly, especially in a healthy home situation, the less moisture into the home during construction, the better off you're going to be in the long run for a variety of reasons. But, uh, it, it

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[00:37:25] Caroline Blazovsky: So just explain to them what that system is and how it attaches to your house and how it's different than if you were just to build a normal. Every day, you know, construction, normal construction home.

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[00:37:46] Andrew Pace: wrapped around the building.

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[00:37:49] Eric Goranson: what I'd call the norm for people out there, but the traditional, yeah. But there's a lot of systems now

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[00:38:14] Andrew Pace: Now again, the problem we have is at those seams, when those seams flap in the wind and you get wind driven rain through it or snow, in our case up here in Wisconsin, he gets snow blowing, blown through those seams. Yup. The, when you're framing a home. Your exterior frame, whatever, whether it's two by four, two by six, if you're just doing a traditional Woodstock on the outside, you're using a sheathing material.

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[00:39:07] Andrew Pace: So it's completely sealed and Huber has their own factory training to teach you how to, how to install the system. Uh, so it's not available all throughout the country. There are pockets of the country where it's just not. Either. It's not well-supported yet. The lumber dealers aren't aren't supplying materials are not doing good training.

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[00:39:48] Andrew Pace: And they make a building wrap that you can use over traditional OSB, but it's a peel and stick membrane. So you get that positive lock at the scene. There's no worry about that. Flapping in the [00:40:00] breeze. Carolyn and

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[00:40:13] Eric Goranson: At the bottom and actually letting snow and moisture back in because you've ballooned out the house, wrap a wave from the structure, and now you've led a place for it to come back

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[00:40:28] Caroline Blazovsky: And a lot of these companies, we've all been hitting home on using , but now we're learning that an ERV can actually have a downside, right? The downside is it can actually create too much pressure that, that building envelope that Andrew and Eric are talking about can actually expand like a balloon right off of your plywood.

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[00:40:57] Andrew Pace: Well, you know, this is [00:41:00] it's interesting because the industry has really gone towards this. What I would call high-performance construction. And which is green energy efficiency and so forth material efficiencies and so forth.

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[00:41:37] Andrew Pace: Because you are getting fresh air. You're not getting, you're not getting moisture locked in a cavity wall because the cavity wall probably was brick and stucco and there's no installation. So, but you know, there there's gotta be a happy medium. Sure. And so, uh, I actually do find that in, in the building industry, there is kind of, uh, uh, bumping of, of [00:42:00] heads between the high-performance home builders and the healthy home builders, because you'd think the two would have the same goal, but they're, they're really different.

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[00:42:35] Andrew Pace: It's not

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[00:42:44] Andrew Pace: bikes, for instance. Exactly. Exactly. Now what I will say is, you know, sometimes you have to take a step forward to take two or step backwards to take two steps forwards, right?

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[00:43:16] Andrew Pace: That's becoming more popular again. It's insulated concrete form construction, ICF construction, built my mom's house

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[00:43:25] Andrew Pace: I know, well, it's now 15 years ago, ICF construction was getting very popular, but the cost of wood was so cheap that the building associations just said, you know what?

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[00:43:55] Andrew Pace: If you're not familiar with it, it's essentially building a house out of Lego blocks that are [00:44:00] hollow. These are styrofoam type or expanded polystyrene foam blocks that are hollow in the middle. And after you build the wall and all the walls around the house, you fill it full of concrete. Inside of those blocks, you're going to have a furring strip or a nailer, every 16 inches on center, the way the industry is using.

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[00:44:45] Andrew Pace: Yeah. But you know, back in the day it was about 10% more expensive right now. It's about the same price. Yeah. It's

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[00:45:07] Eric Goranson: Her heating and cooling costs are near zero. I mean, she could set that, that house just is so efficient and it's so quiet. If you were building, you could build an ICF house next to a freeway

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[00:45:23] Eric Goranson: have that sound go through, especially if you put in, you know, better windows and things like that that were designed for, for noisy areas.

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[00:45:31] Andrew Pace: know it. Right? Exactly. There was a house built, uh, a few miles away from my house next to a set of railroad tracks. And I was touring that house with a train going by. I didn't even know it. Yep. Now I saw

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[00:45:51] Andrew Pace: one issue that

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[00:46:01] Andrew Pace: wall.

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[00:46:03] Eric Goranson: you had, it was like. And you could see afterwards that they had not managed that well. And they had a PR, they were out a couple inches in the middle of this wall because it had bowed in with the prevailing winds going in

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[00:46:30] Andrew Pace: You have to have somebody who knows framing, who knows the dynamics of concrete, you know, and those two are two different trades, no question. So it kind of takes somebody who's kind of an engineer who has brought up their own, um, crew as apprentices and, and taught them how to do it the correct way. And that it's, it takes a while to, to teach that.

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[00:46:58] Eric Goranson: no question. And now that there's, [00:47:00] high-performance, concrete's out there there's even more stuff that you can do with some of these things. With concrete these days. So it keeps getting a little more complex and a little more common complex with the custom mixes you can do. And some of that stuff too, uh, I mean, you could add additives to concrete now to make it some moisture case

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[00:47:19] Andrew Pace: Unbelievable. And, and, and then you can also, you can also pour a concrete that's completely, um, permeable, permeable pavement, use it for driveways. So just water just goes right through it. You never have to worry about salt pop outs or, or a water damage whatsoever. Yeah, it just,

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[00:47:38] Andrew Pace: It's cool. Exactly. That's so I think that's four. I think number five for me, number five for me would probably be along the lines of flooring materials. I have sold wood floors. Matter of fact, back in the early nineties, the only flooring [00:48:00] material that I knew of that was being manufactured worldwide.

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[00:48:10] Andrew Pace: that's right? Yep. Old-fashioned linoleum. Yup. And you know it here, this is a sheet flooring material made from a pine resin wood flour pigments spread onto a jute backing, right. Linseed oil. Yup. And when people say, say that the word linoleum that most people actually believe it's. No question what the word linoleum actually means.

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[00:48:41] Eric Goranson: a kitchen with that here probably five years ago for a client, but a designed out and we use the, the, uh, the green apple color if I was going to turn out awesome in this kitchen. So I had a nice green.

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[00:49:14] Andrew Pace: product, wonderful product.

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[00:49:36] Andrew Pace: And they met right in the middle of the zigzags. And she said they wanted to wake up every morning and go to the kitchen and just be energized. And they certainly were

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[00:49:55] Andrew Pace: But you know, what I love about it is it's [00:50:00] naturally antibacterial naturally. Anti-static, you're not adding any other micro band or anything else on there that's causing a formaldehyde problem. It's just, it's, it's naturally antibacterial because the linseed oil that oxidizes off it over time. So just a very, very safe material.

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[00:50:36] Eric Goranson: Oh, that is great flooring. And what is there stuff that you're seeing out there now that, um, is starting to get on the healthier cyber flooring? Cause you know, how there's luxury vinyl, planks and tiles and all that stuff out there that has been really cruising past what I called the old Pergo laminate floor gymnasium sounding home stuff that we had 20 years ago.

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[00:51:20] Andrew Pace: Yep. And because it doesn't contain MDF, there's no worry of any urea formaldehyde coming off. Plus it doesn't warp the way some of that older stuff did. So that's been a huge, huge product for us. I probably have that product installed now in about 200 health houses across the country. And these are homes that are being built or remodeled for people with extreme sensitivities and a vacant tolerate that product.

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[00:51:47] Eric Goranson: on the, on the stone core flooring for you that I've been trying to research. I haven't found the answers yet. I've seen some installers out. Instead of cutting and snapping this stuff there, they're throwing it on their [00:52:00] sob. Are we getting into a silica problem when you've got a stone core material and somebody is using a saw with no dust collection on it, out on a job site, I'm curious to see if we're running into any unknown

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[00:52:17] Andrew Pace: Um, that's a great question because just about anything that's will contain cellar from, and it's probably gonna come down to the actual composition. Most of this is what's. It's called SPC. It's a stone plastic composition. Uh, they usually use limestone because it's easily powdered, but I don't know what the silica level is in limestone versus just say, you know, a typical cement.

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[00:52:58] Caroline Blazovsky: a great question. When I [00:53:00] test right for particulate, one of the things that I always test for silica, and when I say that every house, I mean, it's, it's odd.

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[00:53:28] Caroline Blazovsky: Things like cartridge, ink, cartridges off of printers, which is interesting because you wouldn't think of it. Right. And so what people do is, you know, you have your home office, right. And you've got your printer right next to you. Some people have multiple printers and they're breathing it in. So it, it, that's a really big problem with silica.

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[00:53:47] Eric Goranson: I've, I've called two flooring manufacturers and none of them are Cali, but I've called to name brand flooring manufacturers and talked to their tech department and they go, um, yeah, I don't know. I've never looked for [00:54:00] it. I mean, I had this dead phone, like, are you there?

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[00:54:18] Andrew Pace: knows. Well, you've, you've obviously asked a question that they weren't prepared for. And, but these are things that we have to ask, and this is, you know, as all of us here we are.

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[00:54:52] Andrew Pace: I had a call with somebody in, in Barcelona and then a few in, uh, here in the states. Everybody has the same question. How do I live in a healthy home? [00:55:00] You know, how do I find a healthy apartment? Or, you know, how do I do this without, without poisoning my kids. Yeah. And that's why we call them

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[00:55:08] Caroline Blazovsky: That's why we all come together. Right? I mean, this is the whole point of this show and Andrew has his own podcast as well, but just before. The specialists and putting us in this big pot and kind of sitting down and saying, okay, look, let's all brainstorm together to figure out how we can educate people.

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[00:55:31] Andrew Pace: it's like, we brought up,

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[00:55:37] Eric Goranson: And he had a guy that was drilling a hole in a basement floor, somebody called him in on it and the OSHA guys show up and all of a sudden he's got a silica dust complaint and maybe the flooring installers upstairs, who's actually creating a bigger problem than what's going on downstairs. And all of a sudden all the air tests could be off because the flooring installers up there with the chop side, knocking out flooring [00:56:00]

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[00:56:01] Caroline Blazovsky: Like I test sick all the time. And like I'm telling you, it's a major problem in houses across the U S so it's just there, you know? And where does it come from?

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[00:56:12] Eric Goranson: that was my little stumped, the expert questions that I had with the flooring manufacturers, because nobody, nobody has any idea on that stuff yet, which I think that'll be a upcoming question for many of them, as I keep asking

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[00:56:25] Andrew Pace: I love that. I love that. And I certainly will reach out to the folks that I know at Cal had asked that same question. And I, and it's, it's up to us. It's up to people like us to ask these questions because homeowners don't have the connections. They don't, they don't know the, the general lingo to get through a conversation.

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[00:57:01] Andrew Pace: You know, it's sand glass of mineral oil, the three ingredients and can offer. Well, I, I actually contacted, can often said, well, you do realize that there is a industrial mineral oil, which is very toxic to humans. And there's also a, a, a, uh, uh, a safe non-toxic version. Which one are you using? And they said, I don't know.

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[00:57:25] Eric Goranson: And if they don't know, I kind of got an,

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[00:57:44] Andrew Pace: Wow. That's crazy. That's crazy. So it, it pays ask questions, but you know, again, for most homeowners, they just don't have the, um, they don't have the knowledge base to start with. And so that's why they hire folks like me to, to make sure that they're, that [00:58:00] I'm their advocate and I'm finding out. That is awesome.

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[00:58:04] Caroline Blazovsky: long, but I have one question for him to Eric. Um, so, and this is just a personal question. So we're talking a lot about OSB. I'm apply would person, you know, I'm typically when I build a home, I want, I request that there's plywood use not OSB, um, argument for OSB argument against if you have the choice and which one do you prefer and,

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[00:58:32] Andrew Pace: Cause I actually do a formaldehyde test called a frat test, a formaldehyde release attenuation test. I have tested exterior grades of OSB and plywood. And the next year grade uses a phenolic resin or phenol formaldehyde in lieu of a urea formaldehyde. Neither of those products release formaldehyde period from a human health standpoint, there is no difference.

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[00:59:29] Andrew Pace: There's less likely a chance for any of that adhesive to get out via off gassing, but it really doesn't matter anymore. If, as long as you're using a, an exterior grade adhesive, there should be no formaldehyde off gassing,

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[00:59:51] Caroline Blazovsky: So that's always been a concern. And they're saying that that will close in the envelope and create higher moisture levels within the house. Yay or

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[01:00:15] Andrew Pace: All right. Which is the argument for insulated concrete form construction, because air only comes in where I want it to come in and therefore it's not going to be a problem in those areas where it's not supposed to come in. So, um, that all said there is a little difference between plywood and OSB with, with vapor transmission.

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[01:00:59] Andrew Pace: Gotcha. It's [01:01:00] like paint.

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[01:01:25] Andrew Pace: If we were using cabinet grade, you know, Baltic Birch for sheathing, it'd be different story.

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[01:01:34] Andrew Pace: throwing up there. Right? Exactly. So that's,

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[01:01:50] Eric Goranson: I don't know.

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[01:02:04] Caroline Blazovsky: They're not going to know. And so we can look at it and go, you can take that right back where you got it from, you know, but unfortunately that's why they need us to advocate for them, for sure.

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[01:02:23] Andrew Pace: Just everything was perfect. Everything had to be right now. I've softened my approach in this because there's gotta be some leeway. There's gotta be some give and take. Um, we strive for tolerance. Now this is the wa the reason why there is no such thing as a healthy home. There are green homes, energy efficient, sustainable, and so forth.

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[01:03:08] Andrew Pace: And people would buy his book. They would hire him to, as a consultant to build a healthy home. And they would say, you know what? It didn't work for me and they'd Sue him because it's his fault. Wow. So we have to say everything is based upon your own personal tolerance, but we've got to give some leeway because we know that even if I buy the best product in the world, if the, if the crew doesn't install correctly, everything's out the window.

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[01:03:54] Andrew Pace: You know, we know that it's, don't worry. We've got a piece of ice and water shield doing the sides, taking care of it. [01:04:00] No question,

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[01:04:09] Andrew Pace: more best way is to go to the website, the green design center.com.

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[01:04:39] Andrew Pace: And although I've got 25 houses under construction right now across the country in various stages, most of my clients are people who are booking me for a 15 minute or a 30 minutes conversation on trying to find the healthiest Hyde blue for, for what application or something to that matter. They just, they're looking for healthier [01:05:00] materials and you can go online and do a ton of research and still be confused.

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[01:05:18] Eric Goranson: podcast out there too. We can, uh, we can cross-promote

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[01:05:24] Andrew Pace: Three words. That's simple. That's a poll and you can find it on all of the, uh, all the locations you find, any podcasts, these

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[01:05:41] Eric Goranson: Cheers.

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[01:05:44] Eric Goranson: Andrew. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I'm Eric G and I'm Caroline B and you've been listening to

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Around the House® Home Improvement
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