Metal Roofing with Todd Miller from Isaiah Industries and the Construction Disruption Podcast

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[00:00:23] I literally in 46 years, excuse me, 44 years in this industry, I have had two complaints about noise. We're on the house shows brought to you by pyramid heating and cooling. Serving in Oregon, the Portland Metro area and Bend, Oregon. They are your one stop shop for heating and cooling and indoor air quality.

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[00:01:07] Thanks for joining us today. And we've got an amazing interview today. This is going to be so much fun. And anytime him and I get together, it's always a good time. So thanks for joining us. I've got Todd Miller, president of Isaiah industries. We're going to talk metal roofing today. But he's also the host of the construction disruption podcast.

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[00:01:53] It's not just that metal shed stuff that people think of sometimes. It can look very architectural. [00:02:00] It really can and that really is up to the consumer or the property owner and whatever sort of look that they want. But that is a certainly a nice thing. You can have that traditional long vertical seam metal roof look or you can get metal roofs that Really look like high end slate or wood shakes or shingles or clay tile.

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[00:02:38] And I'm like, any place that has severe weather that they're trying to fight or they're concerned about, tends to be a good market for metal roofing, whether that's coastal areas worried about hurricanes, or out west worried about wildfires, or even areas worried about seismic activity. Are oftentimes turning to metal because it is so [00:03:00] much lower weight than other roof systems, especially a lot of those seismic prone areas use heavy tile roofing.

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[00:03:41] I'm watching this house. They've got some plywood. It's framed up. They got plywood or OSB actually around the garage door. I get that for sheer. There's nothing on the outside walls. They've got the roof actually sheathed and they've got the tile preloaded up there. And I'm like, [00:04:00] You were putting how many tens of thousands of pounds on the, on the roof of this, and you haven't got any sheer up on the side of the house.

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[00:04:24] And they had a couple of two by fours up as a is sheer on it. But I'm like, wow, that's. Obviously, they haven't had one happen yet, but at some point, they probably will. They were going to do stucco on the outside, but literally, they just put up some, some, didn't even use OSB on the sides of that thing or plywood.

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[00:04:56] There's so much weight up there and I'll be honest, I don't want to have [00:05:00] 000 pounds over the top of my head in a seismic zone and wonder, no, is that going to stay up there? Yeah. It's interesting. We actually sell quite a bit of our product into Japan, which is unusual. Not a lot of American building products manufacturers sell into Asia, but.

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[00:05:34] And it's turned out to be a nice market for us for a lot of years. At this point, don't tell my competitors. The physics don't lie on that. It's basic. Okay. We're going to put all this concrete ceramic or. Or clay product over my heads and hopefully it stays up when everything down below it moves, why not lighten that up a bit?

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[00:06:13] And I was in high school, so I was working summers and high school and college and came into the business full time in 1986. But our business has changed a lot over those years because back then residential metal roofing was almost unheard of. The metal had. Maybe a one, one and a half percent share of the residential roofing market.

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[00:06:55] And so we started spending some time with a few contractors scattered around [00:07:00] who were. We're selling our products residentially, learning what they were doing. And then we just went out and started replicating them, finding more contractors that were, Hey buddy, you want to try this new metal roofing stuff?

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[00:07:29] And the Metal Roofing Alliance is an organization I've been involved with for about 25 years, and I currently am blessed to serve as chair or president of it. But our goal through that organization is consumer awareness and education about metal roofing. And so over the years, we have seen metal now is at about a 15 percent share of the residential re roofing market, probably around 8 or 9 percent of the residential New construction market, but it's very much the number [00:08:00] two player.

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[00:08:22] So that can get to be a little, a little chaotic sometimes when we see as those political seasons change and everything else, all of a sudden when oil goes crazy, so do those building materials. Yeah, they really do. They are heavily, heavily dependent upon the oil market. And so their prices are really dictated largely by that.

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[00:09:01] And that's usually what it comes down to is. Looking at the oil content, but cutting the oil content makes them affordable and makes them viable because it lessens their, their need for oil content. Yeah, it sure depends on climate too. Cause I've noticed that here as well, that what would be called a 20 or a 25 year roof.

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[00:09:37] Just as soon as Around the House returns, don't change that dial. Welcome back to the Around the House show, the[00:10:00]

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[00:10:29] We get so much damage from moss and stuff like that. And people trying to clean that off that sometimes those roofs last 15 years. Because of that situation. No, you're absolutely right. It is very much driven by geography. Also. We do a lot of roofing in Texas where asphalt shingles, we, we commonly replace them at seven, eight years.

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[00:11:11] And I got to watch those 50 ton rolls come in off the train and they actually make it into and shrink that metal down into roofing. It was fascinating to watch how much steel those guys crank out. And it really shows, and it's just one of the many manufacturing places around the United States, but it was really amazing to watch how much metal goes out for residential like that.

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[00:11:52] One of the areas SteelScape has really been a leader is putting more than one color of paint on the metal. So [00:12:00] we can get roofs that actually are speckled to look like asphalt, or they're actually. Veined and textured to look like slate. In fact, SteelScape can put as many as I think five or six colors on at one time.

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[00:12:32] Over there, I saw one that looked like probably the best way to explain it was it looked like a reclaimed recycled old. Rusted tin roof, but it was completely manufactured. So it had that without rusting everything else around it. People, I'm going to put this very cool, I'm going to make an outside bar area and I'm going to make it look like an old shed.

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[00:13:10] That looks like it's supposed to, but you get that warranty and new product without having to worry about something that's. Already three quarters to its lifespan. Absolutely. Rust is an impossible process to stop once it starts. And yet folks, especially in the mountain States and Southwest like that sort of old rusted look.

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[00:13:55] Helps the metal keep that I call it specular. It helps it keep this [00:14:00] sort of metallic look to it. So it no longer looks like paint on there. It looks like what it is colored metal. And so I have big hopes in coming years for anodized aluminum roofing as well. That just adds so much durability to the outside of that, that anodization process used to see if you're into old classic trailers or companies out there that used to make RVs out of anodized, not Airstream so much, but they would sit there and make anodized gold trim on the side.

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[00:14:45] A little secret to anybody going out to that, uh, heritage center there. My little brother has three trailers, uh, that he has restored in their heritage center. And that's cool. Being one that, uh, we rescued. That was, uh, Wally's [00:15:00] original Airstream and Greg's list, and it was sitting out here in a quick little side story, guys.

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[00:15:25] Airstream never put a kitchen in the front. Let me send that over to the heritage center, to his friend at the Airstream there, that was the historian. And he called him up and just kept calling him, calling and calling. He was at, I think he was teaching class or something and kept calling him. And he says, go get that trailer.

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[00:16:07] So I've seen pictures of it. That's amazing story. Incredible. Yeah. So that was, that's been a. A lot of fun. He's got a few of those down there in that museum. So if you want to check out metal trailers, that's the place to go with that brand new. Yep. And then head 15 miles South and check out metal roofing.

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[00:16:28] So I love it, but yeah, it's funny. And I think a lot of people think of, of metal is steel on roofing. And it's just because. Aluminum is a great product for that. Yeah, it really is. It is a little bit more expensive, but especially if someone is in an area where maybe they get a lot of, could be acid rain, something that's really corrosive, or it could be a coastal area.

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[00:17:12] Oftentimes aluminum is a good metal for them because it does have a little bit more life to it than some of the other metals, even. Yeah, and I've seen people out there now even take that 30, 40 plus year old roof that they put on that maybe it was a low slope situation or whatever, and have gone back and had professionals paint them and make them look absolutely amazing again, when maybe they wanted a color change or the sun did its damage like any painted roof.

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[00:18:05] I'd like to freshen it up. It's just a matter of repainting it. And when you think of commercial buildings and industrial buildings, even agricultural buildings, we're really very good at repainting stuff in our country. So that's not a major challenge at that point when and if. Yeah, I'd say it's a restaurant and a changes from one hand to the other.

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[00:18:40] We're talking metal roofing just as soon as around the house returns. Don't change that.[00:19:00]

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[00:19:25] We're talking metal roofing. Absolutely. That is great. So what's the process for people that are really trying to explore metal for their home, whether it's on the, on the side as an accent wall or on the roof. One of the things I always suggest is, and I suppose I'm a little bit biased in this response, Eric, but is to start with finding the product that you like.

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[00:20:08] A homeowner may say, I don't really care about that. And that's fine, but set your criteria and then go out and find the product that meets those criteria. And then go to the manufacturer of that product and say, Hey, who in my area is experienced and trained to install this? One of the things that metal roofing is oftentimes gotten.

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[00:20:47] So my suggestion is figure out what you want to accomplish. Go out and research manufacturers and then connect with manufacturers that produce that product and use them to drive you toward an experienced [00:21:00] contractor. And of course the website I mentioned earlier from the Metal Roofing Alliance, metalroofing.

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[00:21:30] What kind of price differences are we seeing between those? And I know we're trying to take apples and oranges and there's between those, but is there any help to guide people of what the difference is before they start that journey? Absolutely, and we try to be very upfront about that. So metal roofing does come in a fairly wide range of products.

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[00:22:19] Things, but I generally tell people entry level metal roof probably is going to be about double the cost of, of a good fiberglass or asphalt shingle. You get into standing seam and the metal shingles, they're probably going to be two and a half to three times the cost. And then you get into the natural metal type products.

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[00:22:56] Of course they put our roof on it, but the home that they were moving out [00:23:00] of had asphalt shingles. And when they went to sell the home, the roof was shot, they needed a new roof. And you know, we were all like, put asphalt on it again. It makes no sense for you to put metal on that house and turn around and sell it.

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[00:23:42] Yeah. It was interesting. I had a homeowner contact me earlier today and he's got wood shingles on his house and they, they're shot. They need to be replaced. And he's obviously concerned about cost. He's got a pretty big roof, but he realizes that anything that he goes to that. Doesn't keep him with that sort of [00:24:00] higher end, either wood shingle or slate look is going to be a real downgrade to his home and really probably make it so it doesn't look right in his neighborhood.

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[00:24:48] Bigger and bigger and bigger on the West coast, because for a number of reasons, we're getting a lot more fires than we used to out here. And I'm not going to dive into the rabbit hole of forest management, but we've got some [00:25:00] serious issues that we've got to resolve. And these little fires are now big fires and they sure have been creeping into neighborhoods where you'd never think of it.

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[00:25:29] And then the thing that I think is really cool, you've probably talked about this before, though, but. Is the vents that are being developed that close down during fire storms. And I think that's just fascinating technology, uh, and some cool stuff because we got to have vents in our, in our attic to keep on most homes.

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[00:26:31] I agree. And I think you and I maybe have talked about this before, but when it comes to building codes, everyone says I'm building to code. We got to understand code is the bare minimum. This is what you got to do. But to really build a superior dwelling or a superior structure, you got to be prepared to go beyond code in some cases as well.

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[00:27:13] I know what you mean with this, but you pour the concrete in the middle and this contractor had never done it before. And it was a windy day, so the two story exterior wall had a really nice bow to it, like a sail from the wind, and the trim rooms were bowed on the inside, it was just, but it met building code altogether, it wouldn't have passed any kind of a building inspection if a homeowner had paid for it.

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[00:27:58] I'd sure like to see, and then we're seeing [00:28:00] people now really building to exceed that with building science and stuff these days that we're really starting to see a number of builders across the country, whether you're in the South building some of these new fortified homes where they're building them to take category five hurricanes to other things.

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[00:28:32] To find out more information about the show, head to around the house online. com. We'll return with Todd Miller. From Isaiah Industries, we're talking metal roofing, just as soon as Around the House returns. Don't change that dial. Welcome back to the[00:29:00]

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[00:29:19] We're talking metal roofing, but there's always missing the construction industry, right? Where does some of the ones that you see out there where people, where you just roll your eyes and go, You're right there. There are a lot of concerns out there that sometimes are completely unbased. And 1 of them is that a metal roof is going to be noisy.

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[00:30:01] But I had a couple of complaints there about noise, just two over the years. And in those cases, you can actually insulate on top of the decking to control that sound transfer. That's one of them. Uh, I think another one is lightning. Folks are concerned that a metal roof somehow attracts lightning. Well, metal doesn't attract lightning.

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[00:30:55] Uh, you better look out if you're in the bathtub. Okay. It's going to get exciting real quick, but [00:31:00] now all of that stuff has to be PVC coming through the roof so that it will not conduct that charge. Uh, I think another thing, a lot of times that. Sometimes folks wonder about with metal roof, and I touched on earlier, but who can install it?

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[00:31:45] The rest of it is making sure you've got somebody that knows what they're doing, that's putting it on, that's been factory trained or been trained by other professionals to follow the best practice of that product. Because How many times do we see something that's just an amazing product, [00:32:00] but got wrecked up during the install process and it's not going to ever perform like it was designed?

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[00:32:22] Really pretty well, but again, people just don't know what they're looking for with a metal roof. And as I always say, you got three things. You got building code requirements, you've got industry best practices, and then you have whatever specifications are required by that manufacturer. And somehow those three all have to get brought together in terms of finding a.

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[00:33:02] If you're going to put square pieces of metal on it, that's not the optimal one to be up there with your mic, your magnifying glass, looking at every installation, because they're going to have to work with that as best they can. An unsquare house, putting square things on it. You're always going to have to fudge it a little bit here and there to make it look right.

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[00:33:36] And especially when, when DIY project, there's so many tricks to the trade with it. Of the right way to put these pieces on what trim goes on first what trim goes on last There's a lot of little tricks that I wouldn't want a contractor or a homeowner Just trying to dive in for their first one without some prior education.

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[00:34:23] Man, that is great. And there's so many great products out there that goes. Beyond that from the different products now, as far as roof sheathing, that's got the weather barrier built into it. And it's just really made probably that installation so much easier through the process because technology keeps getting better and better, including your industry.

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[00:35:07] Yeah, that is great. Before we go, I wanted to talk about your construction disruption podcast and what you've got going on there because you've been cranking along with that, my friend, and for people out there that are tackling those projects, whether you're a contractor or even experienced DIY, it's a valuable tool for people to check out.

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[00:35:46] We've had a number of architects and that's always been fun getting their perspective. We've also dug into a few things that are issues in our industry regarding addiction, even suicide awareness, because we find [00:36:00] that the rates of those. Can be high amongst construction workers. And so we've touched on a few of those topics that can be pretty life changing, but we try to make the podcast fun.

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[00:36:29] Wow. This was notable, at least in your own mind. My one with you was certainly very notable. Another guest I've really enjoyed. We've had on twice is a gentleman by the name of David Applebaum. I have been, been down to David's house, hung out with him in person. And I had him on here many times, talk about a great soul of a person and a talented architect.

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[00:37:15] We've also had Eric Finnegan from John Burns Research and Development. Eric looks a lot at the home improvement industry and market. That's been a lot of fun. Another one we had was a company out in Pennsylvania called Stellar Floors, and they have come up with a wood floor that you can actually pull individual planks out of and replace them.

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[00:37:54] I've heard of our audience out here. I've heard this a lot, but it was a rescue house that we did out on the Oregon [00:38:00] coast out here. And when we went to look at it, it had had tarps on the roof for about 20 plus years. And we hauled about 2000 pounds of tarps off of this thing. So for 20 years, they just kept putting new tarps on top, but the hardwood floors, when we were in there looking at it on a, on a November day, it was raining outside and it was like somebody had a garden hose landing on the floors in the living room and there was a lot of weaving in spots.

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[00:38:45] Sure. They can always visit us on the web at IsaiahIndustries. com. I also have an educational website where I answer people's questions about roofing and ventilation and condensation and such things. And that is [00:39:00] AskToddMiller. com. Sometimes that's easier to spell than Isaiah. So folks can find me there as well.

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[00:39:25] Todd, it's you guys are really making a difference out there with education and the podcast, which is even more education as well. So thanks for coming on around the house today, my friend. Can't wait till next time. Thank you so much, Eric. It's been a blast. I'm Eric G and you've been listening to Around the House.