Episode 1622
My secrets to designing a great kitchen
WIth about 30 years of designing kitchens there are a lot of tricks and tips I can give you for your next kitchen renovation project. I will also break down cabinetry and what works and what makes sense. Including some of the myths that no longer hold up with kitchen cabinetry. Take a listen as this podcast could save you thousands of dollars on your next project. Thanks for listening to Around the house if you want to hear more please subscribe so you get notified of the latest episode as it posts at https://around-the-house-with-e.captivate.fm/listen
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Mentioned in this episode:
Baldwin Hardware
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Transcript
[00:00:25] Eric Goranson: And those corners can be super tough to deal with. Now, some of the things you need to look at is what makes sense. Now, you know, what's coming up to that corner is, is important. And let me get to this first when I'm starting like on a, on a sync run, for instance, um, even though there's no rules saying it has to be this way.
[:[00:01:12] Eric Goranson: Now my background, Eric Goranson here. I'm a certified kitchen designer through the national kitchen, the bath association. I got that way back in 1999. So my background is kitchen about design. So we're going to talk about great kitchen design today. And if you are going to tackle this yourself, you're going to hire a contractor.
[:[00:01:49] Eric Goranson: And I wanted to give you a little bit of background on this. So you can put this all into perspective. 1st off, you know, the average kitchen lifespan of what they consider. You [00:02:00] know, the full life of the kitchen is about 30 years. Now, where you get that from is from a mixture of insurance companies to cabinet manufacturers, because you'll see many times that there's a lifetime limited warranty on a cabinet.
[:[00:02:41] Eric Goranson: So that's a really good average lifespan for that. Now it depends if you're hard on things and don't maintain it, that kitchen could last 10 years, seven years, or even less than that, depending on what you're doing. But that's kind of the average. So if you think about the house that you've got right now, if your [00:03:00] kitchen is over 30 years old, it's time to consider Either cleaning it up, replacing it, updating, or just a brand new remodel.
[:[00:03:28] Eric Goranson: And it's depending on where you go to. Many people here in the U S go down to their big box store and they start talking to somebody down there. Cause it's ease of access. They've walked past that place. Maybe they've looked at appliances. Maybe they looked at some colors and all of a sudden they see stuff that's going on and they go, Oh, wow, cool.
[:[00:04:16] Eric Goranson: And so here's. Where that's kind of where I started out and that's where many kitchen designers start out at is they start out at the home center And the thing is is that many of the home centers a lot of times they don't just hire for that Maybe you transferred from the garden department or the lumber department and you decided you wanted to be good at it How I got into it was just that I actually transferred in I was working in the door and millwork department And I blew my knee out And when I blew my knee out, they said, Hey, why don't you take a job sitting down since you've got any CL surgery?
[:[00:05:09] Eric Goranson: You are kind of left to your own devices. And many times that training comes at the expense of the consumer because back in, you know, the 90s and 2000s. The stores spent a lot of money training their designers. They were involved in getting them certified, everything else. But the problem was, is they realized that if they're kind of meager salary range that the good ones after they got trained and they got good at it, they realized they could go make more like a lot more working out for private design firms.
[:[00:06:11] Eric Goranson: The problem is, is that they lost them. And so now many of the people. Are kind of trained, but they can maybe not make massive mistakes. But really that's where the issues are. And so home centers can be really hit and miss. There are great designers at the home centers, and there's also about an equal chance of finding someone that, you know, they've been doing it for a little bit, but they're not really good at what they do yet.
[:[00:07:08] Eric Goranson: So they could understand how crown molding went together, how blind corner cabinets went together, how door handing and things and all of those details like fillers and trims would go together. And it made them a better designer. The problem is, is many home centers won't let their people out in the field at all.
[:[00:07:50] Eric Goranson: That is really good at this, where they come out, take a look at your house, see what's in your kitchen, understand how you cook, how you live, what your challenges are. [00:08:00] What the space challenges are and how this is going to look with the rest of the house. Anybody can slam boxes together and make something look kind of okay and make it so it can be installed.
[:[00:08:28] Eric Goranson: They love selling cabinets. But many times it's the more expensive place, like we've talked about in previous episodes, but it's a more expensive place to get it. And you've got generally speaking on average. And again, there's some great stores where they've got great designers. There's other ones that.
[:[00:09:05] Eric Goranson: And I never recommend you as a homeowner jumping on an online program, designing out your cabinets and putting them in, because guess what, even if you've remodeled two or three kitchens. You have the same experience is that brand new designer and you're going to make design mistakes, function mistakes, and you're not going to get the best project.
[:[00:09:50] Eric Goranson: so,
[:[00:10:10] Eric Goranson: Welcome back to the round the house show, where we help you get the most out of your home through information and education. I'm eric g we've been talking about my secrets to a great kitchen remodel and great kitchen design And this is what we're going to be talking about in this hour today of the show Now we were just talking about planning which is kind of the biggest part of this and getting the rate You know, getting the right designer out working on the project and really you have to be able to mesh with that person.
[:[00:10:57] Eric Goranson: Wait till the stress shows up when [00:11:00] something's late, something's damaged, and something like that happens. These are things you should really be careful of. So make sure that you don't have things like that going on. That communication needs to be great. If it's not... Hit pause for a second, get this figured out because I want you to make sure you've got this dialed in that personality between you two needs to work well.
[:[00:11:42] Eric Goranson: And they're going to help foot that remodel or you and your spouse, whoever that is. Here's the thing I want you present for the design meetings. And this was something that I had a big rule with here. When I would meet with people, if I had two people that were [00:12:00] decision makers in this process, then I made sure that those people are at all the meetings and we would reschedule if something came up, because there would be so many miscommunications by not doing that.
[:[00:12:33] Eric Goranson: So please make sure, when you can, that all the decision makers are at every meeting, and if not, schedule the meeting to make sure that happens so everybody can be there. I have had it where I've had two different brain surgeons in a couple that could get time out of their busy surgery schedules. To make it to these meetings and in today's world, if someone's on zoom and someone's sitting there in person, it [00:13:00] doesn't matter.
[:[00:13:23] Eric Goranson: So you need to make sure that you're putting the right cabinetry in there. Now, let's get into some definitions here real quick, because this is a real key right here. And this is something that's a big takeaway. The word custom has no relation to quality. Just because you are having custom cabinets made.
[:[00:14:18] Eric Goranson: Sorry, custom cabinet guys. There are a lot of great ones out there and there is a lot of ones that they have not changed their technology since the 1960s and you've got a problem and here's why. So the first thing I want to address is the finish because this is one of the biggest things that you should be paying attention to.
[:[00:15:04] Eric Goranson: And wax the car every Saturday. And you know, that was the best finish in its time. But as we know, technology has changed. And as car finishes got better, how many times do you see somebody out there waxing their cars on a Saturday? Not as many as he used to in the 1950s, 60s, 70s, and even 80s, because we've came up with better finishes.
[:[00:15:43] Eric Goranson: And that's what holds up, you know, lacquer really failed a lot. If you had a maple cabinets that had a clear finish and around the sink, all of a sudden the cooktop, you'd see it, big flakes of it coming off. That was that lacquer finish. And it also tended to yellow a little bit too, because [00:16:00] that's what lacquer did with UV on wood.
[:[00:16:21] Eric Goranson: Uh, things look really good and water based. And now the latest ones that you're seeing out there is a, uh, is a urethane finish that is now a spray on, uh, urethane finish, kind of, uh, basically I think it's a two part is what it is, but it's a urethane cabinet finish, and that makes for something very durable.
[:[00:17:10] Eric Goranson: They just don't. And that is why many shops still lacquer finish because they've got a couple of year warranty in the cabinets. It's going to last that long. It'll do okay. But it's not going to be as durable longterm. And so you're seeing that. So that, that lacquer finish is not as great, but then the finishes that you're seeing now from either like the, the major retailers out there or the big companies, those major companies, because they have big production, it's cost effective for them to spend, you know, half a million dollars on a flatline finishing machine, because they can sit there and move a lot more parts through there because it sprays, it finishes.
[:[00:18:07] Eric Goranson: So these are some of the problems that we see with finishes out there. And one of the defining things in cabinetry as far as how it looks on the end, you can have the most beautiful cherry wood or the most beautiful Walnut, but if you've got a poor finish. It's gonna look horrible and it's kind of cost you thousands later to fix it.
[:[00:19:11] Eric Goranson: welcome back to The Round the House Show. This is where we hope you get the most outta your home through Information Education. Thanks for joining me today. We've been talking about my secrets to. Great kitchen design, getting that cabinet, getting that design, getting things put together. And so far in the first segment, we were talking about really hiring the right designer.
[:[00:19:51] Eric Goranson: Many times you'll look at painted cabinetry, for instance, and go, wow, okay, I want to, I want a primed cabinet. I'm going to have my installer put it in and I want to [00:20:00] paint it in place, which looks really good. Many.
[:[00:20:33] Eric Goranson: But I think it's the best of all worlds. What I would like to see you do is order your cabinetry where it's pre finished on all the doors, drawer fronts, and all of that. And then what you can do is come in. And if you buy the matching paint from the manufacturer. You spray this and you have somebody that knows how to spray, maybe a conversion varnish or whatever they're doing, go [00:21:00] in and spray the trims and do it that way.
[:[00:21:34] Eric Goranson: And these guys are so good, if you find a good one, I have had them take a cabinet door that was custom made for a project. And it had been drilled through with the wrong hole for the knob. I have had them come in, touch that up with airbrush and everything else, and you would never know that that door had been mis drilled for the hardware.
[:[00:22:28] Eric Goranson: Now, when you get into certain parts of the country. Depending on where you're located, this is the norm and I don't understand why it's just kind of the way the, the way that, uh, regions are in the U. S. here, where out in the Northwest here where I'm at, it is rare to see that happen. But if you get places in the Midwest to the East Coast, I tell you what, it is a way that they have been doing it for decades and I think it's a, it's not as good a finish.
[:[00:23:12] Eric Goranson: It is that beautiful finish and it's also the part that's going to get the most wear because where the handles are, where a ring catches or, uh, any of that, your fingernails. Bump the door the the your hands have acid and oils in that in your skin So when you touch the door every time that's where it's really gonna gonna be wearing And so that's why you want to have that very durable finish not something that's gonna be soft and not wear Well, can you go back and paint it again?
[:[00:24:05] Eric Goranson: And the dovetail drawer box is how they put that, you know, like a maple dovetail drawer box together. That is really great. But with today's hardware, it's not needed like it used to be, you know, 30 years ago, when all you had were sidemount slides in under an inside mount. You know, like the very side or the little white rollers that were kind of a three quarter extension glide.
[:[00:24:53] Eric Goranson: Because the glides have now moved from the sides to underneath where it's supporting the bottom of the box. And the [00:25:00] stop and the soft close is built into the glide. So that front is now decorative instead of the positive stop for the drawer box. So, as the glides have changed, my rules have changed. I'm okay with a plywood drawer box that's edge banded that's been glued and pin nailed together or dadoed together.
[:[00:25:41] Eric Goranson: It gets destroyed too. So if you get that much water in there. You're already taking cabinets out. You're already getting the water out from underneath it. You've probably got a buckled floor. So, I'm really not as much, I'm not as much worried about the particle board versus plywood box [00:26:00] debate anymore.
[:[00:26:26] Eric Goranson: You know, rarely is three quarter inch plywood or half inch plywood, half inch. It's within a 16th, maybe even an eighth sometimes, but it's right in there. So the problem is if you've got 12 boxes, I've grown three quarters of an inch on the run because of those little incremental distances. So if the plywood is slightly bigger than what they had figured into their saws or their program, now you can add dimensions because each box has two sides to it, right?
[:[00:27:23] Eric Goranson: Where that stuff has not been accounted for, and all of a sudden, the cabinets that were ordered correctly and built correctly, except for someone not paying attention to the thickness of the material, now all of a sudden, that thing has crept out to be an inch bigger, and it doesn't fit exactly the way you want it to.
[:[00:28:02] Eric Goranson: So really, uh, particle board versus plywood, you know, uh, I like the no added urea, you know, basically the formaldehyde free, even though nothing's formaldehyde freed when it's wood, but the no added urea formaldehyde is one of those big ones. You can really, um, have a healthy cabinet and that's great for a plywood.
[:[00:29:05] Eric Goranson: Welcome back to the round the house show. This is where we help you get the most out of your home through information and education. Thanks for joining us. We've been talking about. My tips to great kitchen design today and remodeling that kitchen. And this is an interesting one here that I wanted to kind of dive into a little bit, and it's talking about a stained cabinet versus a painted cabinet and being realistic with the finishes that you choose.
[:[00:29:55] Eric Goranson: Does a great job of hiding little nicks and [00:30:00] imperfections because the wood grain is random and it does hide those scratches and use marks so much better than paint. Paint is like your car. When you go buy a brand new car and it is perfect, every little hairline scratch, nick, ding, anything else shows up and it's going to.
[:[00:30:50] Eric Goranson: It's just what it is. And that wear is going to show up differently. A white cabinet will show scratches. More often than even a [00:31:00] natural maple or a cherry or whatever stained cabinet. So if you those scratches are gonna bug you, think twice about a painted finish because it will show more wear. You know, my kitchen's got about three years on it, almost four years on it now.
[:[00:31:43] Eric Goranson: And one thing to consider too, is what would and how it's going to react. And these are big things. So when you think about a wood cabinet, Wood reacts to sunlight in UV completely differently. When you buy a natural [00:32:00] maple, a clear coat on maple, that is going to show up a really white wood. Now, if there is a finish on it, like a waterborne finish, it's going to seem really white in three or four years, or less, UV light is coming into this space.
[:[00:32:42] Eric Goranson: It will yellow. That's just what it does. Now, if it's cherry American cherry, for instance, that will darken. So that cherry will darken depending on how much UV and sunlight that gets in there as well. Now I have had, um, remodeling [00:33:00] work done. Where we put the brand new kitchen in and they came in and had to do some other work and the painters came in and painted off the cabinets and there was a lot of UV and you could see for about three weeks where the blue tape marks were because that aged differently than what happened to the rest of the cabinets.
[:[00:33:44] Eric Goranson: It was all bleached out So once cherry gets enough UV almost every wood does this at some point it gets bleached out where it loses the oils And it just over bakes the wood And it starts looking like beach driftwood. Now, [00:34:00] this was an extreme. It had a south facing, full height glass showroom. And it was about 8 feet from the wall.
[:[00:34:28] Eric Goranson: So that's why when you see mid century homes, you'll go, wow, those were light cabinets. You open the doors up many times in that original mid century, you're going to see that kind of happen where you go, wow, it's darker in here. It's because that Walnut was lighting, getting lighter from the wood changing.
[:[00:35:08] Eric Goranson: And if you're living in one of those condos today, yeah, that wood is Liptus. It's a eucalyptus hybrid that was made to grow fast. You could cut it off and it would grow up out of the same stump again. So, it was something that was a green alternative. Now, that wood refracts light. So, if you have a style and rail door, which is the The rails are like, to better describe it, the rails are the bottom pieces of the door, so they look like, well, rails on a railway.
[:[00:36:08] Eric Goranson: So be careful with some species of wood, depending on how the light hits it. It can actually make parts of that cabinet look darker than the other. Be careful with your wood selection on that and make sure that you've got things correctly taken care of with UV. UV can damage cabinets and can create a serious hot mess.
[:[00:36:50] Eric Goranson: Now, some of the things you need to look at is what makes sense. Now, you know, what's coming up to that corner is, is important. And let me get to this [00:37:00] first. When I'm starting like on a, on a sink run, for instance, even though there's no rule saying it has to be this way, most people want, just because it's always been done that way, the sink centered on the window.
[:[00:37:36] Eric Goranson: So you've got your sink, you've got that on 1 side, the other side, I always want to put in a trash can roll out right there. So that way you can have the dishwasher door down. You can be scraping dishes on the other side of it. Now, and then on the, you can put the dishes into the dishwasher. So you're clear that way.
[:[00:38:26] Eric Goranson: Now, I don't want to put those in the same spot, so if I have the sink in front of me and my dishwasher to the right, I don't want on the right, on the same side as the dishwasher, that range farther down. In that instance, I would move the dishwasher to the other side, and so that way you have a prep area, and then you're taking your dirty things and putting it on the other side.
[:[00:39:06] Eric Goranson: I have voided out corners where you don't use that space and it gave me a lot more drawer space and a lot more storage than trying to reach around and deal with it. All right, guys, that's all we can talk about today. When we're talking about kitchens, I could do another one on design. We might do that in an upcoming episode.
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