Nick Shiffer from NS Builders, we talk remodeling and power tools

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[00:00:09] Eric Goranson: around the house. Hey guys, RG from around the house show. This is a best of episode. I'm taking a little time off and I do that enough and I need to get a little bit of a break. So we're talking with Nick Schiffer of NS builders. This aired last year, but it's over the holidays where people missed it.

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[00:00:30] Eric Goranson: about high

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[00:00:45] Nick Schiffer: to around the house, online.

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[00:00:59] Eric Goranson: know that we've got you covered [00:01:00] is around the house, welcome to the ground, the house. This is where we talk everything about your house every single week. Thanks for joining us. We've got a special guest in the studio today, Nick Schiffer. Welcome to around the house, man.

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[00:01:15] Nick Schiffer: Appreciate it. Happy to have you.

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[00:01:25] Nick Schiffer: time together. Yeah. I, I, I, as I dug into like who you are and how, like what you do in the industry, I'm like, how have we not met?

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[00:01:52] Nick Schiffer: How does that work? Right? I don't know. So.

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[00:02:07] Eric Goranson: Cause uh, sure. You do a lot of the stuff that I love. I, my, my background kitchen designer for 30 years. So I did a lot of the interior modeling stuff. A lot of that kind of stuff that you've done on the, on the, on the remodeling side as well, that luxury

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[00:02:36] Nick Schiffer: I'm not a designer. I'm not an architect. I don't, I don't have any licensing or training in it, but that's where I started really pushing the, the, the level of, detail and how we executed particular things. Um, and that's where, you know, a lot of my mind just kind of got encapsulated by how do we do this better?

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[00:03:16] Nick Schiffer: What can we do to make this better? Well, and

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[00:03:36] Nick Schiffer: cool.

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[00:03:54] Nick Schiffer: I'm like, yeah, man, but it's, it's just different. It's, you know, it's not put together the same way with the same type of [00:04:00] people. They're just not, there's not that many of them, you know, in different parts of the country. And, you know, and I think about that when we talk about it on the pot, the, the modern craftsmen it's, you know, we, we, we caught.

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[00:04:34] Nick Schiffer: S. But yeah, I mean, I'm I do feel fortunate that we are in the northeast and there's a lot of people that love craftsmanship and I'm hoping that you know what we're doing with creating awareness on social and podcasts and things like that, that we're, you know, encouraging people to get into it. Um, yeah.

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[00:05:14] Nick Schiffer: And I don't think that that's. False. But I do think that there's too much focus on it in the sense that, you know, this isn't a career that you get into because you want to be uber wealthy. This is a career that you get into because you are passionate about it and can you make a good living on it? Of course.

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[00:05:36] Eric Goranson: what way too much struggle here to be a get rich quick scheme. That's for sure. And

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[00:05:51] Nick Schiffer: But At the expense of the fact that I truly love working with my hands and working with my body and, and, and doing laborious work. [00:06:00] And I think that, you know, that just needs, there needs to be a bigger conversation around that because I think a lot of, you know, some people get into, you know, particular trades or careers because they think it's the fastest way to wealth.

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[00:06:23] Eric Goranson: think about it, that's where that craft of craftsmanship comes in, right? It's a craft and you have, you're always learning that craft. You walk on and do something different. You're learning.

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[00:06:41] Nick Schiffer: Yeah, I mean, that's, and that's one of the best parts and that's what I love about it is, you know, everything we do, you know, like I said, I challenge it and, you know, we have material millwork now where, you know, I get to dig into the details with Ken and Ian and James in the shop and, and talk about, you know, how we [00:07:00] make something cooler.

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[00:07:16] Nick Schiffer: And sure enough, we sourced the hardware, tested it, it works. It looks dope. And it's, you know, and was it necessary? No, but we accomplished, accomplished something different that now when that end user. Experience is it? And I think that's a key word is like the experience. They have a different experience.

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[00:07:38] Eric Goranson: I want to go back and make sure that I'm not ripping on here. All the crass people that we have across the U. S. And I'm just saying, Oh, you're in Southern California. You're not that I want to make sure and not leave that hanging for all you guys out there. But There's just seems to be a, you know, in your area up there, just more of an appreciation of that.

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[00:07:57] Nick Schiffer: country. Oh, a hundred percent. I just densely populated [00:08:00] up here. Yeah. Yeah. Where it's, it's very spread out there. And, you know, I don't know. I, I it's. It's something I struggle with, you know, just trying to position myself as someone that wants to help the industry as a whole and be, you know, incredibly aware of all these markets and what type of people are in these trades.

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[00:08:40] Nick Schiffer: You

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[00:09:02] Eric Goranson: So I've seen the other side of that too, where sometimes technology gets to be a little slower because that old world craftsmanship

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[00:09:23] Nick Schiffer: There's all of the, I mean, there's an enormous amount of people in the tech space for construction right now. And there's everyone is coming out with a new Yeah, New idea to do something faster and I see a lot of it, but a lot of them reach out to me. I have a friend of mine who's really in that space that constantly is getting my feedback on things.

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[00:10:00] Nick Schiffer: I'm like, dude. Lost. Yeah, you lost me like this, this, this is just a different way of doing it. Like you were trying to change the way we do something rather than make it more efficient.

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[00:10:21] Nick Schiffer: And that's, and I think that just like that. With craftsmanship and the idea behind craftsmanship over, you know, efficiency, I think there needs to be a balance there where, you know, craftsmanship is very expensive and if you can't, you know, labor is more expensive. Material is more expensive. And if you're continually putting in twice or three times as much Labor to execute something at a higher level because, because you want it to be a higher level of craftsmanship.

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[00:11:15] Nick Schiffer: Sure. And, you know, he's like, I like, I just like cutting plywood on the table saw, like working with my hands and stuff. I'm like, I get that, man. Like, I totally understand that feeling, but the reality is like, you could take out the, the monotonous work. And put it on a computer controlled, you know, CNC, that's cutting all your parts and pieces.

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[00:11:55] Nick Schiffer: Not, you know, I just cut that with a ply, like. On a table saw [00:12:00] instead of a C and C. I mean, there's no, at the end of the day, there's no, like no one's there. I don't want to say that no one's going to notice the difference because that's not the point that there's really no benefit to it, I guess, is what where I'm going.

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[00:12:12] Eric Goranson: there's no art to that. Really? It's not, it's not something you're going to notice. And I went through that C and C. Transition, working at cabinet shops and designing and managing cabinet shops back in the day. Cause that was the fight. Okay. Getting away from that Unisaw over into that CNC and you could just get better yields and use equipment.

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[00:12:37] Nick Schiffer: Yeah, use less material. You're maximizing, you're, you're nesting parts and pieces. I mean, that's one of the coolest parts of it. I think, you know, there's a, a framer, uh, who's got a shop that prefabricates all his walls in a shop, and was touring his shop one day, and he's, he orders all his plywood extra, like, 10 foot sheets.

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[00:13:17] Nick Schiffer: How cool is that? I mean, it's, you know, to do that by hand would take days because you're like, all right, which part do I cut now? You know, where a computer can figure that out for you. And there's like, you're not ruining the craftsmanship there. What you're doing is you're maximizing the use of material, which is helping counteract the cost of material.

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[00:14:14] Nick Schiffer: They have that four foot piece and then it's just a four foot piece sitting in the corner of your shop.

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[00:14:23] Nick Schiffer: So you opt to keep that for later. You mean like the 24 drawer boxes we've ordered incorrectly that sit in the corner of our shop that we're going to use?

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[00:14:31] Eric Goranson: not? I have those here in my garage. What are you talking about?

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[00:14:47] Eric Goranson: a drawer boxes and I have a couple of shower door panels here

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[00:14:51] Nick Schiffer: Oh yeah, I had a shower door panel and I ended up, I did end up reusing that. Yeah, um, I've got

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[00:15:03] Nick Schiffer: Yeah, right. Yeah, we built it. We build a kitchenette for our office and it's like, here's a perfect time to use material that we already have.

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[00:15:22] Eric Goranson: Well, I want to talk about power tools with you for a second. Cause uh, man, there's some good stuff out there. I know you do a lot with Festool and tell you what those guys, it's gorgeous stuff, my friend, it is gorgeous

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[00:15:36] Nick Schiffer: When you say that, it's funny because like, that's one of the reasons why I like it so much is because it looks good and it's super sexy, man. And I, and there's so many, so we're re outfitting our, um, one of our vans, uh, for home care and it's kind of a hodgepodge of different tools and everything does its job like a hundred percent.

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[00:16:21] Nick Schiffer: Let's just, because I know it's everything's when that, that cart rolls through that front door and the client's looking like, Oh, that's really neat looking. Everything's the same. Everything's super clean. Oh wow. Everything has its spot. Right. And it's like, what is that? Oh, it's, you know, it's, uh, it's just like, yeah, I'm with you on that.

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[00:16:50] Eric Goranson: right? the first hit.

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[00:16:59] Nick Schiffer: I'm like, what are you talking about? I'm [00:17:00] like, I just need a track. So like, I, I, I see the value and then I call him like, can I get a sander? And then can I get another vacuum? He's like, dude. And the next thing you know, it's like, I need a domino.

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[00:17:15] Nick Schiffer: Right. And I'm, I remember I did a deck and I was like that dominant. I need the XL. Like, I didn't. I like definitely didn't, but I was like, no, but if I mean, I might as well have it, you know, because I can use it now and probably use it again. And then it's just like, and then it, you know, there's, there's so many benefits to it.

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[00:17:50] Nick Schiffer: Yeah, it's you know what? Um, I know what you're getting at because, like, I think about when sedge, like, demonstrate something where.

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[00:18:17] Nick Schiffer: And that was, you know, and that's the part where it's like, these tools are smart. Like there's a lot of thought that went into it because they knew what kind of things that they could add that would make things repeatable, you know, like the indicator, you know, the side, the gauge, the side gauges on the domino is a perfect example.

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[00:18:52] Eric Goranson: sit here and just like drool over tools all day long, but 100%. But I just, I just love how they've, they've put it together.

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[00:19:23] Nick Schiffer: No, 100%. And, and I think you're right. Like, there's a lot of tools out there and there is this like misconception that, you know, you need to have. Particular tools or like a, a particular brand, it's not, it really does come down to preference. And are there benefits to using something like Festool over another tool brand?

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[00:20:03] Nick Schiffer: You know, desirable to work with where it's like, yeah, I could go buy, uh, you know, a 40 belt sander and, and do, do the damn thing if I need to. But if I have a really nice, you know, belt sander or a really nice tool, like I'm going to treat it a little bit differently and it's going to have a little bit more capacity in the sense of like what I can do with it creatively and, you know, and, and, and how much control I have over it or, you know, Obviously, the dust collection is a big thing for them.

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[00:20:51] Nick Schiffer: It's, you know, because I have a good. Dust extractor on. I'm like, that's a that that was money that that that was valuable to me. You can be

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[00:21:06] Nick Schiffer: up. Right?

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[00:21:35] Nick Schiffer: It's like, Hey, can we get this? Can we get that? You know why? It's like, well, this will make my job easier. Or Hey, this drill. I really like this drill. It's small. It's ergonomical. It's, you know, it, it's easy to fit in cabinets. It, you know, it has more clutch control. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. If this stuff makes your job easier.

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[00:22:06] Eric Goranson: It ends up being safer in the long run. 'cause they're comfortable with it, they know how it works and it's reliable.

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[00:22:16] Nick Schiffer: it. A hundred percent. Would

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[00:22:21] Nick Schiffer: I have, yeah. Yeah, I had, uh, I said I had a meeting like someone else in my company now has it in their truck, uh, but I had the, I think it's HKC like that cutoff saw.

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[00:22:59] Nick Schiffer: Yeah, it's [00:23:00] overkill. And I think that the saw is just not designed for it. That's what I mean. Yeah.

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[00:23:10] Nick Schiffer: Yeah. And if, but if you're cutting like a half a dozen two by fours to frame up a small wall, yeah, totally.

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[00:23:31] Eric Goranson: take the Ferrari out four by four? And

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[00:23:38] Eric Goranson: Absolutely. That's

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[00:23:47] Eric Goranson: But yeah. And one of the thing I like about them too, is they stay in their lane too, by the way, this isn't supposed to be some festival commercial, but they just stay in their lane.

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[00:23:59] Nick Schiffer: [00:24:00] crazy. No. And I, in, you know, I had the benefit of being out there early, like before they, they were like considering social media at the time, uh, and whether or not they'd have a presence on there, which is funny to think about now.

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[00:24:34] Nick Schiffer: Um, and you know, I think things like they acquired, um, SawStop, if I, if I speaking correctly, but that made sense, you know, it's like, You know, they didn't, they didn't do it and said that now we're gonna put a sawstop in all our tools. It was just like, it made sense for the industry. It's something moving in a really good direction.

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[00:25:15] Nick Schiffer: That is like more, you know, variable, variable control on it. You know? Yeah. Um, yeah.

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[00:25:31] Nick Schiffer: cool. It is. So I hit my finger once on it. Really? Um, I did, wait, hold on.

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[00:26:02] Nick Schiffer: Oh. In a demonstration at a trade show. I'm like, who proved that? Yeah, and no one and he was just like, watch and he slid his hand and of course, like the break went off. But it's I'm like, dude, all I thought about was years ago I saw this Volvo commercial when they came out with the automatic braking when they saw a pedestrian and the video was like the guy just hit the gas and someone has shut it off.

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[00:26:45] Nick Schiffer: It's designed for... I'm not betting my own hand on that. Exactly. But... Yeah. Yeah. It is. I mean, it's... Regardless if I, if it was my finger or a piece of wet wood, I mean, when it goes off, it's like, damn, that was... [00:27:00] That was, it lets you know, I did

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[00:27:07] Nick Schiffer: and boom.

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[00:27:18] Eric Goranson: like a, like a 50 pound piece of steel lands on your deck of your table saw. Yes.

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[00:27:31] Nick Schiffer: And then everyone else gets quiet because they're like, what the hell was that? Yeah. It's like, Oh, just my saw automatically like eating a blade. Yeah. Eating itself

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[00:27:43] Nick Schiffer: well. Yeah,

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[00:27:50] Nick Schiffer: most?

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[00:28:21] Nick Schiffer: Uh, it was A little old school. It was actually a shop one. So it had like the metal base bolted to it, but I used to bring, I used to bring it out to the job site and so I'm pushing the last piece of trim. It's probably 22 and a half inches wide. Always push it through without a push stick like my whole life.

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[00:29:01] Nick Schiffer: It cracked that sideways and then it hit my ring finger and it cracked that knuckle sideways and then the blade, I still have the line of my nail went up my fingernail and when it hit my knuckle. My recollection is that the blade jammed on my knuckle. Oh, dude.

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[00:29:19] Eric Goranson: Yeah,

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[00:29:40] Nick Schiffer: But I take the glove off and I throw it and I'm like, Oh my God. Okay. I think I'm okay. And this is how I'm reacting in the moment. I'm like, all right, I'm good. This hurts, but I'm gonna tape it up. So I go to my trailer. I'm looking for electrical tape. Of course, blue tape. Electrical tape is

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[00:29:56] Nick Schiffer: tape.

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[00:30:17] Nick Schiffer: So I call the non emergency line and I'm like, Hey, I don't, this is an emergency. And they're like, okay, what's going on? I'm like, I'm at such and such a dress. I cut my hand on the table saw. I just don't have any bandages and I'm bleeding pretty bad. And I just want, I just need someone to help me come bandage my hand.

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[00:30:51] Nick Schiffer: I'm like, all right, nevermind. He goes, why? I'm like, I just needed help with something, but enjoy. I'll talk to you later. Yeah, and then and later on, you're

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[00:31:01] Nick Schiffer: dude. Later on. I told him he goes, dude, I would have got in my truck. I'm like, no, no, don't worry about it. So I call my brother and I'm like, and I tell him, I'm like, Hey, this is what's going on.

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[00:31:27] Nick Schiffer: I'm like, Oh, I just got my hand. Everything's okay. And she's like, are you sure? I'm like, totally fine. So the EMCs come over, they're like, what's going on? And they look at my hand. And she, uh, the EMT looks at me and she goes, Hey, you're in shock right now. I'm like, no, I'm good. She goes, no, no. Let me just explain something to you.

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[00:32:06] Nick Schiffer: So I fought with her eventually got the ambulance and I call, so I call my, I call my mother at the time, but I called my brother to, I was like, Hey, I just need to go. I need you to get a ride and pick up all my tools. I couldn't pick them up. Sure. Yeah. And can you put them all in the back of my truck and just bring my truck home?

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[00:32:36] Nick Schiffer: I'm like, I'll, I'll take it off. And she goes, I'm going to cut it off. And I was like, beside myself, I was like, no, this is my favorite work sweatshirt. And she's like getting the scissors and she's like cutting my sweatshirt off. And then all of a sudden, pain. And I went into like crazy pain. I get to the hospital.

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[00:33:17] Nick Schiffer: Bandaged up. Bandaged up. And, um, they never healed correctly. I think they did a bad job splinting them, but yeah, I mean, I can't like, I can't get them to fully extend straight. Oh yeah. So they drew, um, but like that is fine. And that's good. That's good. Yeah. So there's my story. Oh man.

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[00:33:39] Eric Goranson: Cause mine's brutal, but I'll tell you after the show. All right. But yeah, it's brutal, but we all have those. We all have those.

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[00:34:05] Nick Schiffer: And the thing hit a knot, came out and went right into the side of my knee and it didn't hit a bone or anything, but I had, I had to lift the doghouse up. And like, like off my leg, uh, because it like, you know, shot me down to the ground essentially. But

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[00:34:22] Nick Schiffer: Nice.

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[00:34:43] Nick Schiffer: And, you know, and my thought on that, right. Is everyone, you know, there's a lot of talk about how, you know, media and influence on media and social media and stuff like that is, is negative. It's like, no, the, the reason it's [00:35:00] so negative is that it's always existed at this level. And I'm relating it to like having bad product.

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[00:35:17] Eric Goranson: hundred percent. And you know, it's, it's, it's crazy. And, and I, I talk about on the show, this a lot is, you know, there's, there's bad products out there.

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[00:35:45] Nick Schiffer: but they still sell them.

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[00:35:56] Nick Schiffer: Yeah. I mean, it's the same thing with the car industry too, right? [00:36:00] Like, you know, someone will sell you a, you know, a cool exhaust system that deletes the muffler and the D the, the, the DPF on a diesel, but you know, it's for off road use only. Yeah. Uh, I mean, Massachusetts, like we have a strict plumbing code and it's, you know, if it's not on the approved.

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[00:36:43] Nick Schiffer: And then it's, you know, it's the same like arc fault breakers, you know, it's, you know, they're, they're an absolute nightmare because it's like, dude, they keep tripping. Like you're a bad builder. Your electrician sucks. It's like, no, the code requires us to put these in. It's like, well, I want them out. It's like, then you need to sign something that you say that you're [00:37:00] okay with being liable for us.

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[00:37:13] Eric Goranson: And the hard part is, is, you know, due to all the crazy lawyers out there, does that form even protect you? You know what I mean? I mean, that's the tough part,

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[00:37:22] Nick Schiffer: Yeah. It's like the fire, you know, whatever, like the panel catches fire. It's like, has nothing to do with the breaker. It's like, well, he didn't have the right breakers in there. So. You know what I mean? It's like, yeah, but those breakers have been around for like four years. So pretty sure they're okay.

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[00:37:40] Eric Goranson: well, it's like, it's great example. It's like, how many people want to put that chandelier over the bathtub?

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[00:37:48] Eric Goranson: everybody wants to do it, but it's in my Pinterest picture.

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[00:38:00] Nick Schiffer: I had to bury. He's like, yeah, I hope it's anchored to an LVL up there when you hang your chandelier from it. It's like, uh, accurate,

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[00:38:17] Nick Schiffer: Yeah. But yeah, it's a true, I mean, I get it.

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[00:38:40] Nick Schiffer: Yeah. And now I'm telling like 30, 000 people at once. Um, but yeah. But point being is like, there's all these rules about pregnancy and it's like, you can't eat this. You can't eat that. You can't, you can't drink. It's like, no, you can drink. You just can't be an alcoholic. Yeah, like you can have that

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[00:38:57] Eric Goranson: Yeah. However, comma, you're not supposed to [00:39:00] have the two magnums at

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[00:39:21] Nick Schiffer: You know, don't avoid like best practice because of it. Yeah. I think about like the charcoal filters, right? Like on plumbing stacks, we're not allowed to use mass and in some States you can. And sometimes I've seen them when they put the charcoal filter underneath an Island cabinet, we're not allowed to do that.

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[00:39:53] Nick Schiffer: It's like, no, no, no. That is the reason they are not allowed is because you're taking advantage of it. Absolutely. It's, you [00:40:00] know, and, and I think that, you know, even tool companies, right? Like, you know, going back to table saws, it's like, Hey, you have to have the guard on your blade. It's like, sure. I'll have the guard on my blade, you know, on my, my contractor version table saw out in the field when I'm ripping a 45 on a two by four, I'll make sure my guard is on my blade.

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[00:40:30] Nick Schiffer: Like, it's just not sorry guys. And it's just being honest. You know, we actually just hired, um, a safety officer for our tech, our company, because we were like, all right, let's get legit.

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[00:41:01] Nick Schiffer: And it's like, I didn't know that. And it's like, you know, there's, if, if you're creating more danger for yourself, they're like, you just have to have a plan in place. Like, what is your plan? Like, if you're, if you're going to do something, what, like, how are, how are you taking the best Measures to prevent an accident and it's and again, it's like, yeah, you know, they want you to have the table saw guard on at all times.

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[00:41:34] Eric Goranson: yeah, there are times that that, that, that guard gets in the way and causes more headaches than if

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[00:41:42] Nick Schiffer: I mean, yeah. You know, the, and listen, I, I'm watching all of these manufacturers like design better and better guards and it, and I think that it's super smart and they have to, because the, the use, the, the use of those guards is, is. Probably small, like very, very [00:42:00] small and they're just looking to go from like 1 percent usage to 2 percent and like, just make an improvement, like get more people to use them, figure out how to make it safer.

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[00:42:28] Eric Goranson: Yeah, it's, it's, you know, in our field here, it's that, it's the extension ladders, the roofs, the table saws, the air nailers, that's, that's where the problems arise.

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[00:42:46] Nick Schiffer: It's like, you know, these guys are up in a man basket on a lull. Like do they, like, what's the rule for being tied off? Are they tied off to the basket or are they tied off to the house? You know, and it's like scissor lifts, like you're actually don't want to tie off in [00:43:00] those apparently. And it's like, or, or you do when there is like this in place.

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[00:43:20] Nick Schiffer: And yeah, I mean, it's, again, it's, you know, it's a small investment for, you know, hopefully a better future for everyone that's involved in our project.

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[00:43:39] Eric Goranson: I ask everybody that comes on in our fields here that, uh, what do you see out there with the new kids coming into the trades? I mean, there's such a great opportunity out there for men and women,

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[00:43:59] Nick Schiffer: [00:44:00] And I think that we did that. Um, and I think there's a massive amount of interest in the trades. Um, but coincidentally, during the time of creating all this awareness, we ripped out the education, you know, my, my tech school, you know, I was talking to one of the teachers that. Uh, teaches there because we actually brought in one of the students as an intern.

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[00:44:42] Nick Schiffer: That's. Two different, two different trades is metal is machine shop still there. He's like, no, that's kind of combined with welding. I'm like, also two different trades. Yeah. And he's like, what about auto body? He's like that combined with mechanics. I'm like, [00:45:00] all right, this is nobody's thinking this out.

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[00:45:21] Nick Schiffer: Um, so you asked what my, what my predictions are. I think that I think my prediction is that labor is going to continue to become more expensive. Um, and what that's going to do is it's going to continue to force innovation and, and alternative ways to build. I think that offsite construction is going to, uh, continue to grow.

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[00:46:16] Nick Schiffer: And I think that's going to be very difficult for that, that, that group of people. I think that you're going to see people that weren't necessarily looking to get into, uh, construction, get into construction because of the tech backbone of it, um, such as automation and factories and, and BIM and, and, and CAD and things like that, uh, and modeling and solid works, all that stuff, right.

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[00:47:16] Nick Schiffer: This is what, this is what we can offer you at that level. And if you want to get to a one, a two, a three, all the way up to say 10, here are the things that are required of you. Here are the. the milestones that you need to hit. Here's the extracurricular, you know, training that you need to take part of.

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[00:48:03] Nick Schiffer: In a way that they have more control over and, and, and with like, with that being said, I think that having the self guided control is really important where it's like you think about like the people that work from home and get to create their own schedule. Like we don't, the guys in the trades don't get to do that.

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[00:48:46] Nick Schiffer: Between particular hours, you know, like the and then everything beyond that is overtime, right, which is extra. But point. My point is, is that there's less flexibility as to when you work where I think [00:49:00] that's going to continue to push the, the. The pressure on us as business owners and leaders to, okay, if that's like, that's something that they can't control, they need to be in control of their career, of their earnings and whether that's, you know, their, their, their annual pay increase, whether that's a bonus structure, whether that's a career map, you know, in order to retain people.

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[00:49:41] Eric Goranson: I think it's going to be very interesting for, you know, the entry level to mid level home out there, how I think that we are just coming over that hill of the factory built home that that's really going to be where.

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[00:50:09] Nick Schiffer: down. Yeah, I mean, it's a great, great point about the safety, right?

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[00:50:39] Nick Schiffer: And we might never replenish that amount of people. So, you know, while, while we want to continue to, um, attract people to be in the trade, we also have to understand that we need to innovate in a way that requires less people to, to do this work. And there's a big argument there where it's like we shouldn't be so focused on [00:51:00] getting rid of the quote unquote craftsmanship.

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[00:51:18] Nick Schiffer: So the more you work against that, the further and further you'll end up being behind everyone else. So true.

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[00:51:44] Eric Goranson: I mean, there's, there's going to be a lot of pluses and minus with, is it going to, is that 40, 000 square foot home going to be a modular home? Probably not. Yeah.

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[00:52:10] Nick Schiffer: I'm like, I just need, like, this place is amazing. Yeah. She's like, what are you talking about? I'm like, the detail, like the door casing, like, and she's li and. And I'm like, and this thing was built in like 18 months, like this massive hotel. And so I really started like looking at things and like, like I was just obsessing over it.

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[00:52:52] Nick Schiffer: And it looks dynamite. It looks like someone, someone sat there and sanded and made that thing [00:53:00] perfect and sprayed it and you know, and then protected it all the way through construction. It's like, no BS dude. Like that stuff

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[00:53:11] Nick Schiffer: Exactly. And it's like, and, and to think that, you know, this is what, this is how we can, we could build that 40, 000 square foot house is that you think about, okay, maybe that thing doesn't show up in, on, on trailers and goes to get together like a Lego set. But maybe it comes panelized, maybe it's built in a factory and panels, and maybe the roof is pre cut and they can fabricate it while they're standing walls up and then they crane it over and maybe all the interior doors are already pre done and pre made on one side pre k like, and yeah, okay, you immediately think, oh yeah, but pre k is like, that's the crap you see at Home Depot.

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[00:54:13] Nick Schiffer: Yeah, you

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[00:54:15] Nick Schiffer: be done. Yeah. And that's the thing is like, we are so in this industry, we're so reactive. So we're always like facing the problem that's right in front of us where, you know, well, we need to be thinking about bigger picture. We need to be thinking about, you know, how do we do something faster and I'm going to use this example.

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[00:54:55] Nick Schiffer: I think someone referenced it on LinkedIn, but it was, well, how could they have done it [00:55:00] in seven days? Because they wanted to, yeah, they

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[00:55:12] Nick Schiffer: thing work, but, but absolutely accurate.

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[00:55:36] Nick Schiffer: I'm like, that's not true. It is not true. 100%. And you, you can't sit here and tell me that we can't build this house in 18 months. You have to come to me. If you came to me and said, Hey, I'll build this house in 18 months, but it's going to cost you another 50 grand because I need to, You know, pay, pay, you know, X amount of more people to show up, right?

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[00:56:18] Nick Schiffer: And I mean, listen, I know that there was problems with those homes, but the point is. The point is, there is a way to do it. Yeah. Whether it's right or wrong is, we can determine that once we figure out, like, how do we get to that end result. And if it, and for us, it's quality first and then price and schedule are, are organized in the second and third spot.

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[00:57:01] Nick Schiffer: We have a thousand people on the job site and now everyone's working inefficiently. Okay, well, that, that, that doesn't make sense. What does, can we fabricate the house and offsite and then bring it on, you know, in a helicopter and drop it in place and it costs 7 million to helicopter. Okay. Does it make sense?

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[00:57:39] Nick Schiffer: It's like, you know, I'll say, Oh, why don't we, you know, do this, that, that and the other thing. And they're like, you can't do that. I'm like, well, what if, you know, what if you had a piece of hardware that did this and like the door swung that way and then it did this and they're like, yeah, but that hardware doesn't exist.

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[00:58:18] Nick Schiffer: Can we make, can we make a hundred thousand units and so on? Yeah. Like it's, you know, and this is, you know, this is where I get really excited. And why I like the position I'm in with my, my teams now is that I'm the one that constantly is like, walk. You got to prove that you can't do this because like I get that there's some, if it's money, okay.

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[00:58:42] Eric Goranson: project I had, uh, geez, this was 15 years ago. It was Bill Gates father's house. Now we went in, it was a trust. And I mean, this was probably the craziest job site measure. I walked in with the, with the remodeler and I'm the cabinet guy. We walk in, there's armed guards.

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[00:59:18] Eric Goranson: Mm. And I'm like, alright man. Um, are you gonna give us some time to spool up or is just like starting tomorrow? What's, you know, what's, what's, when's this, what's the start date on things goes? Oh, start date will be in a month. So in 60 days from today, this kitchen have to be done. So I get the measurements, get the drawings, go back and head over to the c e o of the cabinet company.

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[00:59:53] Nick Schiffer: price at it. Well, well, you know, I'd have to call this guy and see if I can delay his kitchen.

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[00:59:59] Eric Goranson: what's [01:00:00] how many guys want to work late? So they have money for the holidays, right? What's it going to cost to, you know, overtime, 10 hours, everybody.

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[01:00:19] Nick Schiffer: We need to be more creative with the constraints that were, that, that are put on us in construction. You know, I, I truthfully as a builder want to get to a point where I can look at a client and guarantee my profit, my, my budget and guarantee my schedule. And, you know, and I say that year after year and I've never been able to do it and it's incredibly frustrating.

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[01:01:00] Nick Schiffer: Yes. Like, I mean, like, you know, like military, like they come in, we have a process, we follow the process. We, we, and that's, and that takes, you know, from day zero to day 700. I mean, it's going to be every step of the way, you know, has been figured out and we know where our, our, the holes are and we're going to work as a team to make sure those holes get filled.

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[01:01:26] Nick Schiffer: bro? I don't know. This is quick, doesn't it? These podcast. Yeah, it's like every time I'm like, man, there it goes. If I did a podcast every day, I would just, you know, I, I, I talk all day. Yeah, you

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[01:01:42] Eric Goranson: Anything else you want to

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[01:02:32] Nick Schiffer: And that is at the end of the day, what I hope, uh, my professional legacy. leaves. So where do people find this

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[01:02:41] Nick Schiffer: Nick? On any podcast platform. So modern craftsman, um, you type that in on any platform, um, where we are actually launched on YouTube. Uh, so we're going to be sharing all of our, all of them on YouTube and yeah, any, any, any podcast platform.

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[01:02:59] Nick Schiffer: do it [01:03:00] again. Yeah, man. I appreciate you. All

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