Outdoor Decking and Railings with Deckorators!

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[00:00:06] Eric Goranson: house.

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[00:00:32] Eric Goranson: Uh, There's a PVC option, which is polyvinyl chloride, and that's another product that doesn't even contain wood. And then there's also something unique to decorators called mineral based composite. It is a composite decking, but it's a composite of, of non-wood components. So if polypropylene and mineral like that, you would find in like the limestone, like calcium carbon itself.

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[00:01:06] Eric Goranson: Welcome to around the house with Eric G in Caroline B, where we talk home improvement every single weekend. Thanks for joining us. Hey Caroline, how are you?

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[00:01:17] Caroline Blazovsky: How's everybody doing in radio and podcast land today?

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[00:01:31] Jase DeBoer: Hey, thanks for having me guys. Appreciate

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[00:01:37] Eric Goranson: With that outdoor living space from decking to railing to just one huge resource online. Let's talk about what you guys do, man.

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[00:02:01] Jase DeBoer: Right. Uh, everybody had the wood decks and then they would change those wood ballisters to aluminum. And that was, that was really where we started and, you know, come to now and it's. Decorators is truly a, a fully outdoor living brand from decking and railing to creating that entire outdoor living space.

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[00:02:32] Caroline Blazovsky: And this is like a sexy topic. It's the hot topic. When we go to somebody's house, like no one asks about the kitchen anymore.

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[00:02:55] Jase DeBoer: it's, you're not alone. It's it's such a, a hot. Uh, trend right now, especially [00:03:00] with the past couple years of people being, um, maybe stuck at home or not trailing as much, um, the investment in this outdoor living space or, you know, really an extension of your home.

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[00:03:28] Eric Goranson: You know, it's funny. It is the least expensive way to add living space to your home that you can use for depending on your climate, a fair amount of the

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[00:03:37] Jase DeBoer: It for sure. And I think in some states they actually consider the deck as square footage on living space and like real estate. So, yeah, you're right. It's, it's an easy way to add another living room on your home for your family to enjoy just outdoors.

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[00:03:54] Caroline Blazovsky: friend David that's, bomb's great. Who is an architect to the stars and he comes on the show quite frequently.

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[00:04:17] Caroline Blazovsky: So I have sort of adopted that and philosophy. And it does, it makes for a smaller space where you actually have small living space feel so much bigger.

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[00:04:35] Jase DeBoer: What's what's happening inside the home and how do we bring that outside? So it might be. The textures, the green patterns or the colors of the flooring that are inside. And how does that seamlessly transition to that room outside, or even fixtures and faucets and cabinet poles. And what are the, the trendy, uh, finishes you find there, those are gonna play outside perhaps in your [00:05:00] railing finish choices, and you start to really blur the line between inside and outside, um, and truly create kind an indoor, outdoor, seamless transition.

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[00:05:37] Eric Goranson: Mm-hmm that I had troubles with as an early adopter, but I, I am very happy to not have to stain or paint a deck ever again.

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[00:06:06] Jase DeBoer: That's on that's going on your, on your deck. And there's different types. There's a traditional, like you mentioned a wood plastic composite that may be untapped, like in previous years, or now it's capped with a durable cap stock. Now, uh, there's a PVC option, which is polyol chloride, and that's another product that doesn't contain wood.

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[00:06:43] Caroline Blazovsky: How does that hold? How does that hold up, Jace, like, so I've never, I don't think I've ever seen that particular

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[00:06:49] Jase DeBoer: It's the mineral based composite is, is. Incredibly unique and it holds up it's it sets the benchmark for, for quality and, and, and a premium tier of [00:07:00] decking in the industry. So there is traditional composite, which is certainly a fantastic product. WPC we'll call it even an NBC mineral based composite. Um, And the benefits that come with that are, you know, there's no organic material, so it's not gonna absorb water and you have far more versatility with that.

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[00:07:40] Jase DeBoer: Um, and probably the biggest benefit at least for builders is, uh, you're laying this decking down and you wanna, you wanna make sure this thing looks nice. Your seams, your 45 degree minor cuts. I don't know how many times you guys have done something where you build. You come back a couple days later and the weather is, you know, the, the heat [00:08:00] and the cold that 45 degree minor might have opened up a little bit.

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[00:08:19] Eric Goranson: Yeah, that was one of the problems that with the original kind of wood chip plastic stuff that they came out with the original composite decks mm-hmm I had more problems with that stuff because it wasn't capped.

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[00:08:59] Eric Goranson: And [00:09:00] their house in Eastern Washington, it looked like it was made outta silly put after one summer. Sure. Because it was a complete failure of that system. Uh, just because it didn't hold up with the, with the, you know, 110 degree heat outside. It got too soft.

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[00:09:21] Jase DeBoer: You hit on one of them. Does it get hot? And the other one is, does it get slippery? Um, and the slippery one is, is becoming far more of a concern for homeowners because it is a, it is a wood, plastic, or a, or a wood alternative decking. And if it gets wet and you have more people staying in their homes longer, uh, they may be aging in those homes.

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[00:10:05] Jase DeBoer: It is 34% or greater surface traction than any other composite decking in comparison that's in wet and dry conditions. So, um, goes back to kind of what we try to do is listen to homeowners, listen to contractors and, and try to address. Not just innovation because we can, but innovation to solve a problem that, you know, slip resistance is certainly one.

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[00:10:57] Jase DeBoer: Mm-hmm

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[00:11:23] Eric Goranson: Can make it pretty slippery. So that added, added traction is really a big deal for your product, because that makes it so much easier to, to get out there without walking on ice.

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[00:11:41] Jase DeBoer: It's, it's surprising how much traction there is there. So, uh, if you ever get a chance yet to, to actually get your feet on it and try it, it's, it's, it's substantial and it, and it makes a big difference.

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[00:12:00] Caroline Blazovsky: Mm-hmm so Eric Scott in the Pacific Northwest, what his. Trauma or his worry is right in my, in, in, in New York, we've got to deal with pollution, high humidity, high temperatures, heat. And I, and I was thinking as Eric was talking, you know, we deal with pollution, right? We get a lot of this black kind of city.

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[00:12:36] Caroline Blazovsky: Like they're going outta style and then they end up. Destroying the deck and putting too much moisture into this decking, and then you get rot and mold and sure, blah, blah, blah.

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[00:12:55] Jase DeBoer: And so, um, I, I would start with just simple soap and water and [00:13:00] a nice scrub brush. Try that first. Just give it a nice wash off. That's typically all it takes to remove some pollen or remove. Of the debris that started to collect over the, you know, going into spring. Um, and if, if there's something that for some reason isn't coming off, maybe it's like a little bit of pine tar or something that's, that's kind of sticking a little more, um, certainly a, a power washer is something you can do, but I would use it on the low setting and make sure it's a fan tip.

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[00:13:53] Jase DeBoer: Yeah,

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[00:14:07] Eric Goranson: But I just get out there with some, literally with some Dawn and a, uh, like a scrub brush that you'd wash an RV with on a pole and 20 minutes. I've got it washed down. It looks good. Yeah.

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[00:14:22] Eric Goranson: Now it's funny, you know, the, the, how composite decks have changed.

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[00:14:54] Eric Goranson: It didn't hold up to that heat, the chemicals, the, the stuff it was, there was part of it [00:15:00] closed off because it had gone down from that typical, you know, solid stock, one inch down to. Oh three eighths of an inch just because the chemicals were eating. Yeah. It is amazing how these new products out there are so durable in an outdoor environment.

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[00:15:26] Jase DeBoer: framing down below. Yeah, you, you are right on, uh, a lot of these decking products, you know, decorators included.

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[00:15:59] Jase DeBoer: But for some [00:16:00] reason it failed the 25 year removal and replacement is to. For decorators to remove the old product, replace it with new product and cover the labor to do that. And that last part is nice. A

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[00:16:15] Jase DeBoer: The way, the way that, you know, contractors, you know, have. A a vital business is to continue to move on to the next job.

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[00:16:40] Jase DeBoer: But, um, To your point on the structure though? The, the structure. Yeah. You have to make sure that that thing is, is done correctly. I think before we even hit record, someone mentioned, um, my ledger wasn't flashed correctly on the deck. yep. Things like that. Can, can give you a, a lot of [00:17:00] problems very quickly.

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[00:17:26] Eric Goranson: And on top of that, I take it a step further, further before Carolyn you jump on with yours. I always tape the top of the, of the, of the joist and stuff. So all the wood framing on top is covered with a deck taper. It's basically a flexible flashing. Yeah. So that way you don't have any water sitting on top and you can extend the life of that.

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[00:18:00] Jase DeBoer: down below.

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[00:18:19] Jase DeBoer: Um, or in some markets using a ground contact, treated lumber that has increased retention is also a really good idea. And there's

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[00:18:31] Jase DeBoer: know, and then there's some that choose. Uh, in markets like Colorado, where it's very dry and, you know, wood can tend to, you know, behave a certain way in that climate.

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[00:18:46] Caroline Blazovsky: that's what I was gonna talk about just as soon as you said, framing, I'm thinking about going to a steel using steel framing, and I wanted to get your opinion on that and how you think that fair is against a pressure treated or any other type of

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[00:18:58] Jase DeBoer: I, I would say [00:19:00] pressure treated lumber is, is a wonderful option. Um, in fact, um, decorators is also associated with another brand called pro treated lumber, um, which is produced by the same company. It's Southern yellow pine. It's treated to different standards like above ground, ground contact, critical structure.

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[00:19:36] Jase DeBoer: And, um, if you wanna go that route, it's absolutely a great, a great decision. Um, many deck builders we work with use. Steel framing. They'll use mineral based composite decking. Uh, there's now fasteners that have been developed to work with steel framing that are more self tappers to cause you need a different fastener for wood versus steel.

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[00:19:59] Eric Goranson: Nice. See, that's [00:20:00] great. And, and with the way lumber prices have been so ridiculously high out there that made steel much more affordable for a lot of people as well, because that wasn't affected the same way at lumber prices. Were

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[00:20:15] Jase DeBoer: Now where woods come back into, um, uh, a reasonable price and, and steels actually become higher. So it's good to have options and you can kind of play where you are in that market.

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[00:20:40] Eric Goranson: You know, so many people would get out there with their two by sixes that were treated and they would get out there with some, you know, two by two stock. And that was your traditional deck railing for like the last 40 years. And then all of a sudden we started getting into all this aluminum glass wire, all those different things.

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[00:21:03] Jase DeBoer: country. Yeah. I I'd say the biggest change is, um, a bit of what you mentioned moving from. In your framing planning where that railing is going to be by having a four by four lagged into the framing, then you do the traditional, like cut the notch out of the decking.

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[00:21:44] Jase DeBoer: And as long as you've mentioning structure earlier, as long as you've put blocking underneath where you're gonna put that railing, you can lag through the decking, into the wood structure underneath, um, After you've applied the decking and you can install how really nice aluminum [00:22:00] railing, uh, whether that be with pickets, whether that be with cable or otherwise.

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[00:22:15] Caroline Blazovsky: can. Right, right. Just give it, it's like a fashion statement. Now you can kind of do it, upgrade your house without having to rip everything off.

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[00:22:24] Jase DeBoer: Yeah. And, and some of those railing styles, the other, the other benefit is when there's, when they're aluminum, they can be preassembled. So if you place the post where you'd like, you can put the brackets in place, sometimes they come on the post. Sometimes they're separate that that picket preassembled panel can drop right into place.

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[00:22:51] Eric Goranson: One of the things that I think is great too is, and this is something that I've really embraced over the last decade as a designer, outdoor lighting is [00:23:00] so key when you're doing a deck.

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[00:23:19] Jase DeBoer: Yeah, absolutely. In, in fact, in, in many cases, Stairs require lighting for code compliance.

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[00:23:45] Jase DeBoer: And, um, but yeah, lighting can definitely change. It can change the entire feel of the deck, uh, depending on the day. Really great addition. And

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[00:24:07] Eric Goranson: Yeah. That look so beautiful. If you just want to have something super clean and contemporary, there's a lot of options.

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[00:24:26] Jase DeBoer: Um, I would just give the recommendation to think about lighting and railing at the same time. Deckings always the primary, right. People are looking for the decking. What does it look like? And they're kind of holding those pieces and, um, Railing is maybe the next thought and then lighting's even further down, but it's a really good idea to come consider all of those pieces early on so that it plays into your budget.

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[00:24:50] Caroline Blazovsky: was gonna bring up. When Eric talked about lighting, Eric, do you remember those big lights? We had these on our deck when I was a kid, they were actually like an Amber color and green and blue, and they would do these [00:25:00] weird things. They were like part, but they were all, you know, that was the original lighting back.

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[00:25:13] Eric Goranson: There you go. Yeah. It's it just changes everything outside. And you know, whether or not you're doing a, a front porch where you're doing it, uh, for safety coming in and outta the house in the, you know, in, when it's dark in the wintertime, when you've got much less light than you do in the summertime, it's just smart to do it that way.

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[00:25:29] Jase DeBoer: absolutely. Um,

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[00:25:51] Eric Goranson: They out there sand and wow, there's a composite

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[00:26:11] Jase DeBoer: Um, I used to live in a, in a, in a home out east. I had a homeowner's association. And so, um, the colors are very traditional. There's a solid gray color called kettle, and there's a more varied, um, hardwood looking color called chick. Both fall into many homeowner association, um, requirements for color to maintain like historical code or, or whatever that is.

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[00:27:06] Jase DeBoer: For a long time that went away, uh, the front porch kind of disappeared. Um, and it was coming back in a big way. Uh, I

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[00:27:23] Caroline Blazovsky: It's it's a nice feeling.

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[00:27:27] Eric Goranson: That's cool. So chase, if you're a homeowner out there and you're trying to decide. You know, okay. I gotta do a DAC. I don't know what I'm gonna do. What for you is your guys' best process to start that you know, that research and development and design part of it, what do you recommend for working through your system to do that?

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[00:28:07] Jase DeBoer: It'll bring you the same place. Uh, and when you're there, there's a number of things to, yeah. I think you need to start by just being inspired and seeing what those options are. Um, and so you're, you're starting to underst. Uh, what design ideas you could potentially, uh, pursue, what color combinations, you know, make sense to pair with your siding or your, you know, uh, you, you're starting to get inspiration and understand what are the options.

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[00:29:03] Jase DeBoer: Now your dream is starting to kind of get some form to it. Um, and I, I think another. A big decision. Is, are you going to do it yourself or are you going to hire a professional? And the reason I bring that up as really important, early on is because professionals are, are very busy. They're booked out for months.

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[00:29:41] Eric Goranson: just gonna say that.

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[00:29:54] Jase DeBoer: That's exactly it. And part of that is they're, they're booked out.

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[00:30:21] Jase DeBoer: You can find those on the website too. We have, you know, over 700 professionals that are trained and certified through decorators that you can call. Uh, they can. They're they're trained in the product. They can help you with design ideas. They can help do some of that where, um, what's feasible. What's not what's code compliant in that, in that municipality, um, permit pulling.

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[00:30:46] Caroline Blazovsky: You're making my life so much easier. I'm like so happy. cause you don't understand. My deck has been like, oh, I'm like, oh no, It's just overwhelming when you're really thinking about all the options you have and Eric's helped me narrow down like framing and [00:31:00] things like that.

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[00:31:05] Jase DeBoer: It's it's a great place for the, whether you want to inspire yourself and find photos and find design ideas, or if you wanna hire a contractor, um, and talk to a few there, that's certainly a great place. And I, I think the other, the other thing too is, so we're in August, you've had a chance now this year to probably go to some barbecues or parties at people's homes and you kind of get to see styles too.

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[00:31:53] Jase DeBoer: Um, then the railing color compliments that. So it's like we started this conversation. It's not just a. A rectangle [00:32:00] off your home anymore. It's like, what, what are these three colors you want to kind of combine and create this like interior design outside. And so, um, really ordering samples of product and kind of fitting 'em together and seeing what colors work with your siding and what colors work with each other.

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[00:32:24] Eric Goranson: Well, Jace, that's, that's such a key point right there, because that design of how maybe you want the, the boards to run one direction.

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[00:32:54] Eric Goranson: That's underneath those deck boards. So coming up with that inspiration in your design first, and [00:33:00] then after you kind of think in your head, or even get it on paper, what it's gonna look like, then you can kind of figure out, okay. Yeah, this is where framing has to go. Yeah. And, uh, Otherwise, you're doing this a couple times on the design side, you have

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[00:33:13] Jase DeBoer: Yeah. The, the, the structure certainly is, is a key element and, and even more than the decking just. When you, when you look to build a deck, so think about going to a store. If you were to buy a kitchen right now, you walk into a store and they have a center with a counter and there's people that are consultants, and they're gonna walk you through.

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[00:33:47] Jase DeBoer: Or is it just a place to read, you know, quietly? Uh, do you wanna have a space for shade because you have the sun facing a certain direction and that's gonna be bothersome at certain times. There's all these, [00:34:00] all these things about how you're gonna use. Are you gonna have running water? Are you gonna have like a, a, like a.

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[00:34:23] Jase DeBoer: Because that's gonna play in exactly what you said, Eric, the, the Eric needs all the above. Yeah, exactly. Eric needs

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[00:34:50] Eric Goranson: And then depending on the weather, we can extend it out from that.

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[00:35:08] Jase DeBoer: Um, a lot of times it's the, a deck is kind of undersized. For what you really wanna do. Um, and so just really take that into account. All these different facets are gonna play into the overall success and comfort of the deck you're designing.

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[00:35:30] Caroline Blazovsky: And you have to build the deck around it, or you have to have it on a platform, same with the hot tub. So those are all things you have to take into consideration too. If you're going to do a deck, cuz what, if you're gonna have a heavy structure on top of. So you have to have extra support

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[00:35:48] Jase DeBoer: Um, they, they are, they're incredibly heavy and they're really great on, on, on decorators decking around that NBC decking. That's greater on moisture and traction, but you do need to have proper support under your hot [00:36:00] tub for sure. Cuz it's, it's definitely a significant. That's

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[00:36:16] Eric Goranson: Yeah. And second of all, that, that was a feat of its own that they had to go like Egyptian on it to get it up there. But then you could tell that they didn't build that thing for it. And now of course, the hot tub's sitting up there, the, the, you know, the, the ledgers come off the house, it's sitting at a 45 degree angle and it's like, how did somebody not get killed on this?

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[00:36:50] Jase DeBoer: water in it.

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[00:37:11] Jase DeBoer: Yeah. So it really does pay to get your structure. Right. And frankly, to hire a professional in the.

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[00:37:32] Eric Goranson: I walked out into the back deck and this was because it was on a hill was probably. 18 to 20 feet to the ground level, to the bottom of the deck there, I walk out and it moved so much. I reached up and grabbed the gutter cuz I thought we were gonna go down. Yeah. And I'm like, uh, we're going back inside.

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[00:38:17] Eric Goranson: Maybe it does. Maybe it doesn't, that's kind of the average lifespan of a wood deck. You gotta really pay attention cuz if they didn't flash it right. If they didn't build it right. You know, if they've got 16 penny nails holding that ledger up against the house, that's where accidents happen. And all of a sudden you're on the news.

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[00:38:54] Eric Goranson: Absolutely. Well, I wanted to talk a little bit, where do you see decking going forward here?

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[00:39:10] Jase DeBoer: It's, it's always a great question. And that's, you know, that's, that's our big question all the time is where, you know, trying to look in the crystal ball and see where things are going to make sure.

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[00:39:39] Jase DeBoer: It's not even called a deck all the time. So I had this outdoor living space, which includes. Your deck, maybe your pool or hot tub, your, your outdoor kitchen, but also, um, very frequently stepping down to, you know, a paver patio with a fire pit and it's all interconnected, um, shade structures to kind of almost zone [00:40:00] out the deck.

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[00:40:21] Jase DeBoer: So the, the perimeter borders, like I mentioned, you. Without having a railing across your deck, you can kind of subtly create those, those perimeter within your deck to say, Hey, this is kind of the, the reading zone, or this is the, the eating and friend entertaining zone. So I only see that expanding because.

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[00:41:09] Caroline Blazovsky: I guess I have a question too, Jay, so, and, and I'm going through this right now, designing a patio and then a deck and how these things incorporate, who, who does that? Cause what I'm finding is the paper person comes over and says, okay, we're gonna do the paver. And then you do the deck at this point. And the deck guy comes and says, oh no, I wanna do the deck, but it is this incorporated space.

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[00:41:39] Jase DeBoer: Yes. Um, I guess that would be trend number two. Um, mm-hmm, more and more certified.

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[00:42:07] Jase DeBoer: So there's certainly a place for hardscapers. There's certainly a place for deck builders, but more and more, I see hardscapers taking on the capability of building decks and vice versa. Mm-hmm um, is starting and it's only gonna increase because I think homeowners don't think of those as separate. They think of this space as one one.

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[00:42:49] Jase DeBoer: Right? So, um, a lot, a lot of professionals have great relationships with other professionals in their city. So, um, and they they'll, they'll pass kind of homeowner. [00:43:00] Opportunities to another saying, Hey, listen, I went to this house. I'm not really a patio guy, but you would be, you should check 'em out. They'd be you.

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[00:43:21] Caroline Blazovsky: The footings. That's a good one.

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[00:43:29] Eric Goranson: yeah. Yeah. And you know, my, my advice to Caroline was that, okay, you know, design your deck out. So you know where those footings are, get the footings in at least. And if your, if your patio guy wants to come in and put the patio around those footings, and then, you know, you're building up from there and it does give the decking guy a.

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[00:44:09] Jase DeBoer: Yeah. And you can ask your contractor as well. And first of all, air, I agree completely that. Footers should just be, be set where they need to be set and you can certainly build a patio around those. And then the decking can be, you know, added after the fact that helps. That helps the both contractors too.

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[00:44:47] Eric Goranson: Oh, yes, I, Caroline. And I just talked about that on the show a few weeks ago. And she's like, what is a helical beard? I was starting to give that description cuz I've used them many

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[00:45:04] Jase DeBoer: And then remove all that dirt off your, you know, yard mm-hmm there are some really great companies that, um, can help you with the placement of those footers, but they drive in the, he go pier, um, into a certain torque and then. The engineering plans can be approved quickly and you can build on that almost immediately instead of letting that concrete cure.

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[00:45:43] Jase DeBoer: So

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[00:45:49] Eric Goranson: Helo PI doesn't move it. Won't move. It's all the way down in there. I mean, you can, you can Jack A. House off of that. So they built down.

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[00:46:00] Jase DeBoer: Who's gonna come do that. Yeah. And, or maybe there's some added cost to it, but I also would say the added cost may outweigh. The time and the cost of like digging every hole and removing that dirt, uh, a concrete pile that's four feet deep below the frost line is gonna be a really great option. It just, it, it takes more work.

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[00:46:26] Eric Goranson: to use those on a project here in Portland. It was a kind of a cliff house. You know, we've got some homes up on the, the west Hills here where they've built them into a, into the side of a canyon basically.

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[00:46:59] Eric Goranson: Yep. And [00:47:00] so I actually had to go in and build a, a base to lift from, to Jack it up from, we had actually had to put four helical piers and pour a pad on it, just to have a lifting place. Wow. To be able to get it up, back to level. So there're a great option. And, um, you know, well overengineered for a deck, but in bad soil conditions, bad weather, like you were saying, Jace, it is a perfect solution

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[00:47:23] Jase DeBoer: And, and I guess on the topic of trends, another trend that would kind of oppose even what we just said is, um, or not opposed, but be another option would be, uh, more and more people. And, you know, so like at Caroline, you're more in like that new, New York, New Jersey area where you might have more people that have limited space and they might be considering more of a rooftop deck.

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[00:48:10] Jase DeBoer: They go right over the top of a concrete patio. Um, and you can add decking into unique spaces now, instead of just off the back of a home, in a traditional sense, it can be, uh, a floating deck over a concrete patio. You can use mineral based as like a walkway or a boardwalk in the ground or ground level, uh, which you couldn't do in the past.

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[00:48:42] Eric Goranson: a huge point right there that I wanna make sure people understand that if you have that development, maybe you have that house that you bought that was in that plan development.

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[00:49:11] Eric Goranson: And you're saving yourself thousands of dollars because one, you're not having to rip the concrete up, haul it off, fix the landscaping from doing it and then frame up a deck. You can use that. Which is much more efficient, put the sleepers down and put a deck over the top of it, a brilliant way to do

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[00:49:29] Jase DeBoer: Yeah. Those sleepers are really unique. We introduced those soon after we introduced the mineral based composite, like our vault decking, our voyage decking, the core of that decking. We basically took that and turned it into a, a two by two. Um, that is water and ground contact warranted. So now your substructure and your decking, our ground contact and, and water and ground approved, but it also gives you a, a more minimal structure, uh, to fit underneath that, you know, on the concrete patio, but below your door [00:50:00] threshold.

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[00:50:16] Jase DeBoer: And we're finding more and more that the versatility of decks are, are not just off the back of the home in a traditional sense anymore. They're. They're moving into like other spaces. So

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[00:50:31] Eric Goranson: that. Okay. So think about, uh, if you you've got that concrete patio out there, you're gonna take basically a two by two and probably I didn't look at specs, but 12 to 16 inches apart, typically for a composite deck, and you're gonna put those down and that's gonna hold that composite deck up off of there.

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[00:51:04] Eric Goranson: You can't tell the sleepers are down there, cuz those sleepers just end up. Like the joist, that would be on a normal decking system, but it's just sitting on top of that concrete or finished, you know, uh, completed roof deck and it's a smart way to go. So it's just building it up slightly. So you get that right.

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[00:51:25] Jase DeBoer: Yeah.

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[00:51:46] Eric Goranson: It makes a

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[00:52:02] Jase DeBoer: And, and, or you don't have to is, is the point. So decking, at least decorators decking comes in two profiles. There's there's a solid profile. Which you typically use on stairs or the perimeter boards. So you don't see that groove. Um, and then the field boards are the, the, the one you're gonna use most commonly you have a groove along the side of the board and that's to catch the flanges of those hidden fasteners that Eric's mentioning where you you're gonna drive a, you're gonna put that on the joist between the deck boards and the screw drive straight into the joist.

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[00:52:54] Jase DeBoer: And you take the, the plug and kind of tap it in where a rubber mallet. And it looks [00:53:00] that that screw hole disappears. Um, but that's, that's a really on trend thing to do as well. When you're creating the space is. You know, try to avoid, you know, all these exposed fasteners and really give it a clean look.

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[00:53:12] Eric Goranson: the, the latest is the sexy way

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[00:53:28] Caroline Blazovsky: What are you guys recommending for your decking?

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[00:53:45] Jase DeBoer: Um, you're kind of taking different steps there because the storage, you can, you know, store your kayaks and your things underneath your deck with some minimal water management. Um, if you're looking to actually do like another room under your deck, you really want to take the proper precautions [00:54:00] there because, um, water is going to find a way.

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[00:54:25] Jase DeBoer: It creates a, a nice ceiling look, but also helps that water, um, flow away in the way. And typically gutters are used in any of these cases.

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[00:54:46] Caroline Blazovsky: Like where, where do you make those choices along the way? Or can you do it after the deck's

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[00:54:52] Jase DeBoer: on . Yeah, I would, I would do it early on, cuz like to the thing, Eric keeps saying anything you can think of, it affects your framing and [00:55:00] you don't wanna, yeah. You don't wanna mess with your frame. If you get done, you frame your deck and you're like, I'd like to do water management.

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[00:55:28] Jase DeBoer: Um, some kind of a, like a, uh, A ceiling system. That's water management you had after the fact, but that's why inspiring yourself and looking at products ahead of time really helps you, you know, understand if you're talking to a professional and you said, I want water management. They're gonna, they're gonna change the way they think about framing your deck.

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[00:55:50] Caroline Blazovsky: a lot. It's doing a deck is so much now. Like I think it's, it's a daunting desk. Like it's been overwhelming for me because there's so many things that have to go into it. It's almost like doing a kitchen. It's [00:56:00] insane.

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[00:56:04] Jase DeBoer: And that's a pretty good DIY rectangle. That's no fun Jace. I'll call your uncle and have it done in the weekend. You certainly can do that. But yeah, I think, you know, that trend we keep talking about, uh, decks are not, they're not simple. Anymore people are looking to truly embrace being outside. And, um, and safety's number one for sure.

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[00:56:44] Eric Goranson: No question while we're running outta time. Ja, is there anything that we missed talking

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[00:57:11] Jase DeBoer: And you can move up to mineral based composite, whether our vault and voyage decking voyage comes in different widths even so you can get some really unique design ideas and. Our aluminum railing systems are fantastic from pickets to cable. Um, our process is to inspire you, give you the education, the resources to create that space and the, the best product quality and warranties to do that.

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[00:57:33] Eric Goranson: DeBoer. Thanks for coming on today, man. Decorators, decorators.com and deck with a

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[00:57:42] Eric Goranson: we go. All right, man. Thanks again. We appreciate you coming on and taking the time today. You got

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[00:57:48] Eric Goranson: Eric G and I'm Caroline B. And you've been listening to around the house[00:58:00]