The Trades Skills Gap with Andew Brown

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[00:00:08] Andrew Brown: if the makeup of women in construction, or at least you know, out in the field. And it's just, it's mind boggling because the opportunities are there for them as long as we provide support and they feel comfortable. And then, and there's things that need to be addressed on the job site, and I'm not gonna go into that.

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[00:00:54] Andrew Brown: When it comes to remodeling and renovating your home, there is a. [00:01:00] Are you covered?

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[00:01:03] Andrew Brown: is around the

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[00:01:18] Eric Goranson: If you've got trees, shrubs, bushes, and you're wasting water when you're watering 'em, or you want to cut it back, check out root quencher.com. Those guys. Have spikes that put water right into the roots and not all over the top where it runs down the hill and doesn't end up where you want it to. If you wanna save money, go to root quencher.com.

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[00:02:06] Eric Goranson: They've taken all the trades where they've removed them completely out of so many programs. Kids get forced to go to college cuz it's the right thing to do. And after spending a hundred grand in a college education, they get out and say, Hey, I'm gonna go join the electrical union, or I'm gonna go drive the Mason Union.

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[00:02:33] Andrew Brown: all over and you understand why there is this, uh, skilled trades gap, right? There's, there's 40% of men and women retiring or are at the retirement age in the next five or 10 years.

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[00:03:08] Andrew Brown: And it's interesting when young, the younger generation, when they're sitting down before they, they sign on that data line for college, is there guidance counselor saying, you know, There's another opportunity. There's maybe a skilled trades path, and I don't feel that's being spoken about because I do feel that that's not, teachers and guidance counselors are the best marketers for college, right?

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[00:03:52] Andrew Brown: And you could be working in an apprenticeship and making money at the same time.

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[00:04:13] Eric Goranson: And another show a couple years ago, I brought up the, the concept that I've been waving the flag for a while is that, you know, if you and I go down and get a car loan and you and I walk down or get a house loan and get a mortgage, we have to kind of prove a business plan on how we're gonna pay that back.

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[00:04:51] Eric Goranson: Cuz I see them working at Starbucks and, and other places after they've spent this stuff. I wish they could actually sit there and say, Hey, uh, [00:05:00] what's the game plan to pay this back and maybe start a discussion? Maybe this isn't for me, and maybe I should get into the trades where I can actually be much better off and live a more comfortable lifestyle outside of my work environment.

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[00:05:15] Andrew Brown: this because I went to college for four years and I was more confused when I came outta school. And when I was in school, I started off as a programmer. I was doing c plus plus on the on, on the weekends and looking at myself and looking for people around me. It's like, what are I doing?

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[00:05:55] Andrew Brown: And there are a lot of individuals, especially friends who came outta school and not [00:06:00] happy with what they're doing. They're just not happy. Or they switch completely and they do something completely different. But you've already put in tremendous amount of investment into your education, but you're, you go into something different.

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[00:06:15] Eric Goranson: Oh. It is. It is. It's crazy and, and it's, I think we've gotta really start with younger kids of getting them in school, using their hands on stuff and teaching some common sense stuff because you know, those wood shop days really figured out if you were good at working your hands and if there was a passion there.

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[00:07:03] Eric Goranson: All those things are needed, but I, we've just created this huge skills gap, which is now hurting the public moving forward. I mean, it's great if you're gonna go into the trades because as you know, as an electrician, you can go out and make six figures and work anywhere in the country. But Mr. And Mrs.

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[00:07:25] Andrew Brown: Where are all the shop classes? Where did they go? What happened? Right. I don't, I don't remember taking a shop class. Right. I'm not too far behind you, but I don't remember taking a shot class. And if a kid has a mechanical ability or a technical spark, maybe that gets defined in a shot class that they wouldn't have noticed unless they took the shock class.

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[00:08:09] Andrew Brown: Right. They're not, oh yeah, I'm not, I'm not touching anything. Look, there's something to be said about something electrical and you just don't, you don't really know. And then you bring in an electrician. But there's such opportunities in the skilled trades in all these different areas. And if you apply yourself and you ride that ladder of success by attaching yourself to people who have been there and done that through mentorship.

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[00:08:41] Eric Goranson: you'll never be without work, right? You'll never be without work. Because I tell you what, with our massive skills gap, that there is no quick fix to this. It's going to be a generational fix, right? I mean, we can't fix this tomorrow.

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[00:09:23] Andrew Brown: With a lot less debt, with a lot less debt. With a lot less debt. And it's a shorter period of time, right? So you spent four years, maybe five years in college, you're ahead of the game. With less debt and not just in volume. And then, you know, I always say eventually maybe you buy a home, you get a mortgage that's more debt and more debt.

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[00:09:49] Eric Goranson: path. You know, Andrew, there are some great groups out there as well there. There are some small programs out there, like we have here in my Portland metro area [00:10:00] where I'm at, we have a group out in Forest Grove where they teach building houses to kids.

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[00:10:29] Eric Goranson: The Cascade Mountains, where they've had a guy that's been doing YouTube videos, manly Jobs, Blake Manley, who just left that school district, but there's like a hundred kids in this little town on this forestry program. And I'm out there doing a news story on 'em for my TV show. And I see these high school kids wearing climbing gear to go climb electrical poles so they know how to climb trees and, and be linemen or work in forestry.

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[00:11:13] Eric Goranson: So the lumber class cuts it up into like a sawmill. They get it ready and that wood now goes to the wood shop class. And so they're self-funding themselves with that. They sell some of it, and now kids that are low end can go get getting, get into shop class without any overhead. So there's ways to do it.

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[00:11:34] Andrew Brown: hard. It isn't. It isn't. And exposing kids like that is truly amazing and getting real hands-on experience. That eventually they can go into a trade or, or, or be a line or, or an attrition or another trade. These are things that need to be put in and thought of and thinking outside the box.

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[00:12:16] Andrew Brown: And it's interesting when you talk about what we want to do as, uh, as a country, we wanna fix up our infrastructure, where our infrastructure has a C minus rating, right? Yeah. A C minus rating. How do you get to an A plus if no one wants the job? What are we doing in that, right? Who are you gonna get to do the job?

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[00:12:55] Andrew Brown: Oh, it's, it's dirty. Oh, it's, you know, it's plan B for the bad [00:13:00] kids. It's all, you know, it's just, it's all through messaging and I think people just need the right information and also really starts in our household too, what parents are speaking to kids about. And it's just, you know, it's an all hands on deck

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[00:13:15] Eric Goranson: I wanna address Andrew, the, the, the dirty part of it because it's such a myth. I mean, I know plumbers out there that for the last 20 years, all they've done is go out and build new homes and they're out there, you know, outdoors. They're outdoor people. They're out there, you know, plumbing up new houses.

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[00:13:51] Eric Goranson: So you could also be a drain person and get in there and get dirty every day if you want to. So really, you are in control as the student [00:14:00] of where you wanna go, cuz the jobs are there. Right.

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[00:14:12] Andrew Brown: Well, that's not necessarily true. There are a lot of different options and paths that you can take and you can figure out if you want to be a welder, an electrician, a plumber, carpenter, and so on and so on. Um, but it goes back to that old. You know, adage of, you know, you think of skilled trades, you think of dirty hands, dirty fingernails, um, you know, and working with your hands and, and that seems to always be looked down upon.

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[00:14:54] Eric Goranson: Yeah, and I think, I think part of that has been that, um, you know, it goes back into schools. It really does.

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[00:15:21] Eric Goranson: Uh, we got the plumber coming up next to talk to you. If you don't do your schoolwork right, you could be a plumber. The plumber walks out and goes, Hey, by the way, um, you gotta see my truck out front. I actually make more than your principal does every year. So, uh, if you don't do your stuff right, you could be a high school principal dealing with you kids every day.

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[00:15:46] Andrew Brown: Yes. There is that, there is that feeling. Um, when you also, when you tell, like you said, you tell someone you're a plumber or an electrician. Some, some people look at you like, huh, You know, it's just that kind of, that you could sense that it's like, oh, [00:16:00] well, okay.

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[00:16:30] Eric Goranson: Yeah. That's gonna be one of the biggest things, because right now, you know, we're, we're seeing such a huge skills gap. I, I mean, looking for it. It's growing quickly. It's not getting smaller even though people like you are out there waving the flag. You know, it's, this is a tidal wave that's coming at us that's just unaddressed by many people out there.

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[00:17:07] Eric Goranson: And one of the secrets, I think it's amazing out there too, is that it, it's not addressed is, The women in the trades is so amazing right now, seeing how that has shifted so much recently, there's

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[00:17:36] Andrew Brown: And they feel comfortable. And then, and there's things that need to be addressed on the job site, and I'm not gonna go into that. But no, to make them feel comfortable, to make them feel supported. I mean, there are women that I know on LinkedIn that I'm good friends with. They're doing amazing work.

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[00:18:12] Andrew Brown: But that's almost untapped. Imagine if you can, oh, its, imagine if that was. You bumped it up to 20% of you know are

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[00:18:32] Eric Goranson: Right. You know, you've got companies out there that are making job site year for women. That's not just a small men's piece. Right. You know, you've got the people like Keen Utility out there that are making work boots that actually fit women. And there's a lot of other companies similar to that, and this isn't a commercial for them, but we're starting to see that change, which, which brings more opportunity for women out there because, you know, I'm not gonna speak for [00:19:00] women in this at all, but the last thing they need to see out there is pink vests and pink clothes and stuff like that.

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[00:19:11] Andrew Brown: Yes. And that's just the combined effort and that's just, that's a work in progress. And then it's, it's just piece by piece by piece and slowly changing that old adage over. It's just, it's, it is not one thing that's going to make it work, but what you said, these little things all help and all, you know, it all comes together and will get us to that, that next step or that next level.

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[00:20:01] Eric Goranson: Exactly. They're doing well. Yes.

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[00:20:22] Andrew Brown: More women would eventually be inspired, say, wow, I can do that. And that's just, it's amazing to see that, and it's inspirational.

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[00:20:54] Eric Goranson: So a lot of those things that people go, oh, they just can't, no. [00:21:00] Luckily those days are getting over.

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[00:21:07] amazing.

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[00:21:09] Andrew Brown: watching these sculptures. I'm like, how do you do that? Like, there's such, do such talent and it's just that she's inspired so many people behind that.

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[00:21:28] Eric Goranson: you need out there. Yeah. Yeah. There's a program here in in Oregon that, uh, I've been supportive of for a long time, since its beginning. And, uh, it's a girls build.

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[00:22:04] Eric Goranson: And they do a trades camp for a week? Yeah, it gets sold out in hours. She actually, a lot of times, has to do the signups at like midnight on a Tuesday just so people can have an opportunity to get in there because. It just fills up so quickly.

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[00:22:24] Andrew Brown: Um, she's mostly on LinkedIn. She's up in Canada. She's an iron worker and she's so inspirational, just watching. Cause she, she works with, uh, young kids and showing them what they can do and it's making an impact. It's making a huge impact. And again, just watching it, it's just, I, it's amazing.

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[00:22:49] Eric Goranson: Sure. You know, Roger's out there just trying to promote the trades as as much as he can out there. And, uh, if there's, he's, he's a, an up and coming guy that [00:23:00] is really doing well. But as far as getting out there and really trying to promote the trades and plumbing in specific with him, you know, he talk about a guy that created his own plumbing company and turned it into such a massive, big thing.

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[00:23:20] Andrew Brown: Well, it's, it's interesting you say that because I'm a big, uh, I have a lot of respect for Roger Wakefield and actually will be on his podcast a little bit later in the year, and he's just, I've seen him grow, grow from 20,000 followers in on YouTube to like, I mean, he's just, yeah, I, it's, yeah.

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[00:23:41] Eric Goranson: Be done. Yeah's great. He showed up like five years ago before he got going in one of my seminars at the National Association of Home Builders. And I was down at the, uh, design and construction week and he was an audience member and I just, he stuck out to me and I'm like, this cat's got something different going on here.

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[00:24:15] Eric Goranson: Wow. My wife and I were, we had the hotel to ourself, but we went up and did videos with Roger in his place up at there, at, uh, at at Green Plumbing. And it was a lot of fun in the early days. And that was what? Four years, three years ago. So again, it's just so fun to watch people like that grow and he's making an impact as well, like you said, and uh, and he's just getting started in this world.

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[00:24:37] Andrew Brown: shows what you can do above and beyond just being someone in the trades. And giving back. And he gives back to, obviously he shows you how to build your plumbing business and he's supportive of the trades, but it just shows that you can be a business owner, you can be on social media, you can help others, you can be inspirational, and he's just, he's your prime example of what success looks like in [00:25:00] the trades.

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[00:25:21] Andrew Brown: Yeah, we do, we do, you know, keep putting out, uh, the messaging and keep, uh, keep making an impact. And keep trying to change, uh, you know, the old messaging about the, the skilled trades. And we'll get there. Yeah.

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[00:25:42] Eric Goranson: Because it, it's at times, it seems like we got about a 42 point turn to get this thing turned around where we're actually gonna start making headway and gain on this instead of, of losing ground because, I can, I, I can name an el, I could go to any electrical company in my city right [00:26:00] now and say, Hey, I'm a licensed electrician.

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[00:26:08] Andrew Brown: Yeah, we're coming ahead. Right? We're we're getting to the breaking point, right? Or if we're that there we're gonna be there very soon and Exactly. We need to, it, it there. There's no one thing that's going to say, you know, snap of the finger.

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[00:26:44] Andrew Brown: And I'm, I, I am a supporter of college. But sure. Maybe it's,

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[00:26:57] Andrew Brown: But when I play the Game of Life, if you've [00:27:00] ever played that as a kid, I played the updated version.

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[00:27:25] Andrew Brown: Oh, to talk about. I was like, oh my God. I was like, well, the, the game of life is telling you that, and that kids are playing that and teachers are saying that, and your parents are saying that. It just goes on and on and on. So we need to re kind of reverse that and try that. And, and work on that. And that just is, is it goes back to messaging, social media, putting out more information about the trades, the administration getting up for, and there's a lot of things that we need to do.

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[00:28:09] Andrew Brown: Yeah. Um, but it's just a combined effort across the board

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[00:28:35] Andrew Brown: Yeah. May look, maybe an option is trade school, um, is free. I don't know, I'm just throwing things out there. I dunno if that's even possible, but Absolutely. Just throwing things out there that maybe that, that's an option.

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[00:28:51] Eric Goranson: Yeah. You can go through that whole electrical program in the unions without paying a bunch of money. You're buying some tools, but really that option's out there already in [00:29:00] a way.

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[00:29:13] Andrew Brown: Again, it just goes back to it's not just one thing that's just gonna make this over sudden overnight. Change. It's always so much that technology chat, g g p chat, g pt, and automation a robot, you know, you can't do that. It's just not gonna happen. You still need the, you know, the, the hands-on work for the people who do that work.

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[00:29:52] Eric Goranson: we're, we're decades and decades away from having a robot to get underneath the sink in [00:30:00] someone's house and go, what's wrong here?

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[00:30:21] Eric Goranson: But you're not gonna see that happen in construction anytime soon. And, and if we've noticed. It's not the blue collar jobs we're losing to ai. It's the white collar jobs. Let's be honest.

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[00:30:52] Andrew Brown: Like yeah, that's. You know, it's, it's, uh, it's a secure [00:31:00] profession and yeah, look, even during a downturn on a recession, there's still work that needs to be done around a house. People still need to fix stuff around their house, an electrician, a plumber, a welder. There's still stuff that needs to be done and it's, uh, to some

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[00:31:16] Eric Goranson: Let's attack that myth for a minute, because you're right. I mean, you know, oh, well, construction is, is. Is, you know, oh, it's so cyclical. You're right. It is. But that's the beauty of it. I mean, I've been in this industry for 30 years in the, in the construction interior design, specializing in kitchen and bath work.

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[00:31:54] Eric Goranson: There's always people and it's always there. There

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[00:32:20] Andrew Brown: And there's tremendous opportunity

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[00:32:37] Eric Goranson: He is like end of the line. End of the line. Yeah. I was, I got something interesting here. This is kind of again, comes down to that skills where it was something I did yesterday and this will be coming up on a future episode of my television show. This blew my mind. I was in this, I, I drove past this place, found it, and it's a little company here in Portland that does this nationally Golden West billiards.[00:33:00]

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[00:33:32] Eric Goranson: And I asked the guy, I said, how long does he, as he learned, he's been doing that for 20 years. Yeah. And the only way Ray I got him is that the Argentinian guy that we had hired for 30 years before that, When he was getting ready to retire, I mirrored him up with three years so he could learn that. But we are such at a spot, and that's his biggest fear is we're at such a spot of not having that person one day.

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[00:34:19] Eric Goranson: Exactly.

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[00:34:44] Andrew Brown: I have no debt, I make good money. My schedule's, you know, I pick and choose the job, whatever he wants to be, whatever. And he does pretty well. And he just, it was baffling to him that nobody wants to take over. His job, and this is what happens. He leaves, no one [00:35:00] fills the gap. What do you do? Who do you go to?

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[00:35:28] Andrew Brown: Yeah. For succession,

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[00:35:49] Eric Goranson: That's cool. I get it. But they don't realize how today it's affecting their lives. Tomorrow it's gonna have even a bigger impact because your example there is just great. That guy that's [00:36:00] running his own business, he goes, you know, I can't find everybody. Replace me. Hey, I'm closing it down. I'm moving to the beach, I'm outta here.

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[00:36:27] Eric Goranson: Mm-hmm. If we don't

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[00:36:49] Andrew Brown: Your heaters out. Heaters out. I'm freezing. My kids are freezing. It's, it, you know, it's brutally hot out. People's acs go down right. It's hot and you can't find [00:37:00] that person. That's the worrisome that I'm concerned about, that you're gonna wait a lot longer and pay a lot more. It might be good for the people in the trades because they make more money, not good for the homeowner.

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[00:37:14] Eric Goranson: let's, let's, let's take that over to affordable housing for a second. That is such a big push across the United States right now, right? We've gotta come up with affordable housing. I don't care where you're talking about, whether you're sitting out there in Kansas or if you're in California. It's a discussion, right?

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[00:37:55] Eric Goranson: You

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[00:38:24] Andrew Brown: This is exactly why we need to keep, I, I'll say it again, goes back to the messaging, it goes back to trying to get the younger generation involved and to change that old adage that it's not, Uh, a dirty, you know, low end job that people assume with and that it's a, it can be a high paying job if you put the time and effort in and learn the skills and learn the trade.

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[00:38:53] Eric Goranson: Exactly. And that's, that's really what it's gonna take. And, and, uh, you know, it's, it's, uh, we've got an interesting [00:39:00] decade ahead of us with so many people that are the brain trust of construction. And, you know, remodeling right out there that are, that are getting ready to, uh, head to the beach and call it a retirement.

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[00:39:29] Andrew Brown: You can't just not show up. And, and this is why I keep showing up on videos because I feel like if I'm not showing up, I'm doing an injustice, I'm not doing my job because the hard part is staying consistent. You keep knocking, you keep yelling, you keep screaming. You have a mic and there's, you don't get the, you don't feel like you're making impact.

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[00:40:12] Andrew Brown: That's where you get other people interested. Like Roger Wakefield, you're watching him. I'm inspired by him or Jamie McMillan, you know, and with the Iron Workers women. It's just, that's what you need to keep doing, and those individuals need to keep showing up because if they don't, you know, that's yesterday's news and that's what we need to keep being consistent.

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[00:40:47] Andrew Brown: I am. And I wanna give, I wanna provide some context to really why I do this.

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[00:41:11] Andrew Brown: And I convinced a friend in Rhode Island at the time to come in and he came in a few days after it happened. He comes in with this big, he comes downstairs and he's got this big blue truck with an American flag on back, and he's dressed up as a tradesperson. He's got a hard hat on and he's got an extra hard hat and and overalls for me.

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[00:41:44] Eric Goranson: somehow we made through. You look like you're supposed to be there, right?

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[00:41:48] Andrew Brown: Yeah. You parked the car and now I'm standing on the trade center where it once stood, and this is only a handful of days and I was helping tradespeople and emergency workers find survivors [00:42:00] the entire day. So I was watching the trades. People do anything necessary to find survivors. Can you talk about life-changing events?

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[00:42:30] Andrew Brown: On nine 11. Yeah. So that's where I co-founded an online to an equipment business named Tool Fetch with my brother about 20 years ago. Still going strong today, still love the business. And we sell tools to the skilled trades. So professionals such as welders and carpenters, plumbers, and other blue collar skilled trades.

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[00:43:07] Andrew Brown: That is my way to get back to the skilled trades, to what I saw 20 plus years ago. So every time that I'm talking to someone in the trades, it just, I keep going back to, I'm helping them. I'm the middle man between the manufacturer. And the people who are, I call the heroes, unsung heroes, who are doing the work.

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[00:43:35] Eric Goranson: man, what a powerful story of kind of finding yourself in your early twenties, right? Yeah. Yeah. Dev, divine invention. That that is powerful, man. I love it. I love it. It's such a great success story too, of what you've been doing and, and, uh, We just need to get more of these people in there and everybody that's tuning in right now.

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[00:44:18] Eric Goranson: Dozens of people in the trades every single year, and I think it's gonna be that kind of grassroots effort that's gonna change this ship. Exactly. Thanks for coming on today, brother. If people wanna track you down, what's the best way to do that?

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[00:44:35] Andrew Brown: You can reach out to me if you wanna talk about tools. I'm always, I always like to talk shop, or if you just wanna talk about the skilled trades, reach out to me on YouTube. It's under Tool Fetch and tool fetch.com is our. Website.

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[00:44:56] Eric Goranson: Thanks Eric. Appreciate it. I'm Eric t and you've been [00:45:00] listening to Around the House

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